Episode 2: The First Episode

[00:00:00]
Host 1:
Welcome to Secondhand Therapy, a podcast where we dive deep into the fascinating world of Reddit and impart our personal insights and wisdom. 

Host 2:
While we are passionate about discussing mental health topics and sharing our insights, it's important to note that we are not licensed therapists.

Host 1:
The content of this podcast is intended for entertainment purposes only and should not be taken as therapeutic advice.

Host 2:
Our discussions and stories are not a substitute for professional mental health services. 

Host 1:
If you are seeking advice or treatment, we strongly encourage you to consult with a qualified healthcare professional. 

Host 2:
Prepare for some fun stories and takes, but remember, take our words as a source of entertainment, not as professional guidance.

[Transition Music]

Host 1:
This is a genuine conversation that has only just now happened. 

Host 2:
Not scripted. 

Host 1:
Not scripted whatsoever. 

Host 2:
This is Secondhand Therapy. 

Host 1:
[****] because there's something I discovered yesterday. I just wanted to let you know before you [00:01:00] get into this. 

Host 2:
Oh. First I'm hearing of this. 

Host 1:
Yeah, I know. It happened yesterday. Did I just say that? [laughs] I really don't have a script in front of me. This is just coming from my mind. 

Host 2:
I thought you were about to say “from the heart.” 

Host 1:
From the heart and the mind. They're interconnected. 

Host 2:
They're one and the same. 

Host 1:
But what I discovered was that the name Secondhand Therapy, you know—like the podcast name that we're wanting to start our podcast with—it… exists.

Well, it doesn't exist as we intend it to exist, so, it doesn't exist.

[Intro Music]

Host 2:
It would be great, like, we've been friends for how long? 

Host 1:
I would say, like, maybe six days or so. 

Host 2:
[****] you! No, really, how long have we been friends? 2000… What grade? Like, maybe 9th grade? 

Host 1:
No, we weren't friends. [00:02:00] 

Host 2:
11th grade. So 2011. 12 years. No. Well, 12 and a decade. 

Host 1:
Over a decade. We can agree on that. 

Host 2:
Okay, we can do that math. [laughs]

Host 1:
Yeah. Let's say that. 

Host 2:
For sure, it's been at least 10 years. And our conversations are still not cohesive to anybody but us. 

Host 1:
But we are on the same wavelength a lot of times, so…

Host 2:
Yeah, it's kind of weird. I remember our old boss, she would like, listen to us and she was like, you guys have the strangest conversations. And I think she told somebody, “I just know they're so smart that everything they say is way over my head.” [laughs] And I was just like, no, we're just… Communicate dumb. 

Host 1:
 “We communicate dumb.” We should put T-shirts to that. But let me also say something I remember from those days. I think maybe, this was around the time that I thought, “Oh, we're friends now.” And it was when you were like painting or something, the ceramics or like we were just learning to mix the colors or [00:03:00] whatever skill it was she was teaching us, and it made a little plopping sound and you were like, “That sound is so cute.” It was like, “Who, who says that?” 

Host 2:
Yeah… I do. And you know what? I think it's mainstream now, which is unfortunate. 

Host 1:
That sounds are cute? 

Host 2:
Just that things that are not visually cute can be cute. You know what I'm talking about? 

Host 1:
Like an emotion? 

Host 2:
Yeah, like cute is an emotion and anything can be pretty. That sound is pretty. I mean, that was always a thing, but like cute I think was meant for like cute things like babies, bows— 

Host 1:
Seals. 

Host 2:
—Seals, but like—

Host 1:
Otters. 

Host 2:
—Since that time a decade ago or whatever, whenever that was, people have started saying cute about not visually cute things.

Host 1:
You’re a trendsetter. 

Host 2:
I don't know if it came from me or like it was like co-cur… What is it? Concurrent? 

Host 1:
Concurrent.

Host 2:
Concurrent.

Host 1:
Mhm.

Host 2:
Yeah, but anyway, we've always been [00:04:00] this way… Dysfunctional. And so, that brings me to my introduction of our podcast. This is Secondhand Therapy. Welcome, welcome. This is a safe space.

Host 1:
Welcome to our first session. 

Host 2:
Very first. 

Host 1:
Very first. We've never done one before. Did not do a practice round. 

Host 2:
Obviously. 

Host 1:
Yeah, we don't need it. I've never used an eraser in my life for the same reason. 

Host 2:
Yeah. You're a Capricorn. You don't need an eraser. 

Host 1:
Why do you disclose my history like that? 

Host 2:
I'm gonna disclose your Zodiac sign every single time because it is the best Zodiac sign, I'm like, gassing you up. 

Host 1:
But you're also gassing yourself up. 

Host 2:
Who says I'm Capricorn? 

Host 1:
The stars. 

Host 2:
So you believe? You're a believer?

Host 1:
[sighs] I believe they have their own language that they speak.

Host 2:
[whispers *Capricorn*] That's the language of the stars. 

Host 1:
Oh, oh, but really, it's quiet out there. [00:05:00] It's a language that's not spoken, it's just emitted via light. 

Host 2:
But in the ASMR out there, it's like, when a Capricorn is born, the universe is like—

Host 1:
Oh, yeah, because it has to be the same one every time. 

Host 2:
You're speaking over my universe voice!

Host 1:
But I was just thinking, like, it can't be like Capricorn and Aries and Gemini at the same time, because at one given time, there was only one being born. 

Host 2:
Yeah, so it's like, that's the universe announcing a new birth. 

Host 1:
Let me help out so it's like, more universe. 

Host 2:
Okay, ready?

Hosts 1 and 2:
[whispering: “Capricorn”]

Host 2:
[laughs]

Host 1:
What is this laugh? 

Host 2:
You know damn well this is my laugh. That's my genuine laugh. 

Host 1:
Yeah. It's got some different elements to it. 

Host 2:
Some character. 

Host 1:
Mhm. Yeah.

Host 2:
Alright, we've rambled on too long. Our audience is ecstatic that we have, of course, but maybe we should bless them with some stories. 

Host 1:
So what is it that we're doing?

Host 2:
Oh yeah. They don't know. [00:06:00] 

Host 1:
Right, because this is our first episode. 

Host 2:
The premise of this podcast is we are going to dive deep into some stories, some articles from reddit.com. 

Host 1:
Okay, let me just cut you short because I was listening to another podcast that does the same thing, I think. 

Host 2:
Yeah. We're not the first?

Host 1:
We're the second. 

Host 2:
Oh, that's why we’re called Secondhand Therapy. 

Host 1:
Yeah, exactly. But anyway, they had a segment. It was like “What are your icks?” or whatever…

Host 2:
Uh huh.

Host 1:
And one of them was… it was actually one that was relatable. It was like one of them said something like when a guy swallows his pill and he tilts his head back to swallow it. It's like you can't swallow it without the vertical adjustment? That was an ick for somebody, and it made me think one of mine is when someone uses “www” at the beginning of their links or URLs or whatever. 

Host 2:
So you just hate old people? 

Host 1:
It might be a little ageist, but you did just [00:07:00] say “.com” after Reddit, and it made me think of that.

Host 2:
Well—

Host 1:
I think we know what Reddit is.

Host 2:
Maybe some of our viewers don’t know who Reddit is.

Host 1:
Who? 

Host 2:
Uh, what. What? It's been a long day. 

Host 1:
What is Reddit? 

Host 2:
It's this website at www.reddit.com. 

Host 1:
HTTP, colon, backslash, backslash. 

Host 2:
Not secure. Not secure. Not secure. Anyway, I don't think I have to explain Reddit, but, we've prowled the subreddits for interesting stories that we think are worthy of discussing.

Host 1:
Yeah. 

Host 2:
We’re just gonna—

Host 1:
I picked mine based on what I want to hear your opinions on. 

Host 2:
Oh, okay. Same. 

Host 1:
And what I want to hear my own opinions on. 

Host 2:
Hmm…

Host 1:
I love hearing myself talk. 

Host 2:
I know you do. 

Host 1:
That is a lie. 

Host 2:
You actually don't, yeah. 

Host 1:
Yeah, I don't. 

Host 2:
But you do talk a lot for someone who doesn't love talking.

Host 1:
It is an interesting phenomenon. 

Host 2:
I mean, you don't talk too much. 

Host 1:
Good. 

Host 2:
Yeah, just [00:08:00] right. 

Host 1:
Aw. I’m Goldilocks.

Host 2:
Goldilocks. [laughs] Yeah, that's what I thought. Oh, so do you want to start us off or do you want me to start? 

Host 1:
However you want to do it. What do you think? Do you have an interesting one for us? 

Host 2:
I have one. It's kind of long to read, but I can… I'm a fast reader. This is from the Am I the Asshole subreddit. Five years ago, actually. So the title is, Am I the Asshole for breaking up with him because of his politics or lack thereof? Are you surprised by this one? 

Host 1:
No. Five years ago, you said? 

Host 2:
Yeah. When was that? What year? What was happening then? Can you remind me? Because I don't remember. 

Host 1:
Is the post not going to elaborate? There's always political stuff going on. 

Host 2:
Who was president? Just tell me that one. 

Host 1:
In 2018? 

Host 2:
I remember, 2016 is when Trump won. 

Host 1:
Yeah.

Host 2:
Because I remember, I, I remember telling you, didn't I write you a letter? Or…

Host 1:
Huh? 

Host 2:
That's when we were roommates and I, I left the house before you did. I wrote you a… [00:09:00] 

Host 1:
Oh, did you? Because I didn't get it. I remember I went to the GRE that day, the day after he got elected. 

Host 2:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I remember you were up late studying for it. You went to sleep early for the GRE.

Host 1:
Yeah, I missed it. 

Host 2:
You missed it, but I was awake, and I was watching and I wrote you a little note because I knew you'd be up before me. And I was like, “I'm so sorry Donald Trump is president, but you're going to do great on your GRE,” or something like that. 

Host 1:
Yeah, I'm glad I didn't see that before. 

Host 2:
You think it would have messed up your scores?

Host 1:
It was already messed up. I didn't need the help. 

Host 2:
LOL. Okay, so… This girl says, I've been dating a guy about six weeks. 

Host 1:
Okay. Break up. If you're already this conflicted about it, then there's no need to proceed. 

Host 2:
I don't think so. I think at six weeks it's normal to, like, start looking into things and thinking, “Oh my God,” I don't…

Host 1:
But the title though.

Host 2:
Yeah, I mean, his politics or lack thereof, it's not really very… 

Host 1:
It sounds to [00:10:00] me like there's no politics. 

Host 2:
Oh? And is that bad? 

Host 1:
In that political climate. 

Host 2:
What about in any political climate? 

Host 1:
I'd say yeah, it's pretty bad to not feel invested in the goings on of—

Host 2:
The world around you?

Host 1:
Yeah.

Host 2:
I agree. If you're listening, we're gonna say that again. It's bad to be not politically engaged. I've said the first sentence only and we've canceled him. I've been dating a guy about six weeks. It's been fun. He's been thoughtful and accommodating. Yesterday he came over to my place and a couple things I've noticed make me want to end things with him. My friend says he was rude to him and I fully believe my friend. What do you think so far? 

Host 1:
Well, that's not the title, but yeah, I would—

Host 2:
What do you think about that part, like the friend thing? 

Host 1:
You should want your partner to be polite to your friends or be friendly with your friends. I don't think that's a huge ask.

Host 2:
He kept talking over me, explaining things that I already know. Mmm. 

Host 1:
Mansplaining. 

Host 2:
Mansplainer. Mmm. I know that ending things with him [00:11:00] for those reasons is reasonable, but the reason I notice them… [laughs] Does this [*****] not only, only know the word reason?

Host 1:
The reason that she did what? 

Host 2:
I know that ending things with him for those reasons is reasonable, but the reason I noticed them is because of a conversation about politics we had. First thing to know about me: I'm disabled, Jewish, Hispanic, and bisexual. I and people I love are directly affected by Trump's rhetoric. I understand that some people think the system is doing more harm than any individual president can do, but I think that mindset is irresponsible due to the massive numbers of people being demonstrably hurt by Trump's administration's policies. Vote third party in local and state elections to give them more recognizable candidates for bigger elections, canvas for whoever you want in the primaries, but whenever it comes to national elections—especially presidential—first priority for me is getting someone in office who will prevent the most harm from happening. [00:12:00] I grew up in Florida; I've seen how third party votes act as spoilers. Maybe it's a little judgmental, but I want to date someone who at least leans left, even if it isn't as far as me, and votes practically in the elections. In other words, recognizing that voting your heart for a Green Party candidate, because that's who you truly want as president, means that you're eschewing your responsibility to do what you can and to keep the worst viable candidate out of office. Anyway, my political diatribe is over. This guy is the one that brought up the politics. He just doesn't do them. He said he's politically agnostic. You like that one? 

Host 1:
Yeah, no. Yeah, I love it. 

Host 2:
He brought up the “Hillary is no better than Trump, I don't trust her, the DNC is evil for how they pushed her in over Bernie” propaganda. He said that he definitely thinks Trump is awful, but that having his choice between two terrible candidates was a tipping point for him, and that the system is awful. In parentheses, she agrees. And we need to [00:13:00] get rid of it instead of voting between two evils. 

Host 1:
How do we get rid of it when we're claiming to be agnostic and not caring?

Host 2:
In parentheses, disagree, we need to change the system, but voting third party when they have no chance isn't going to do that and it's going to allow whoever you think is worse a higher chance of getting in. 

Host 1:
I'm confused. Did he even vote third party? Did he vote at all? 

Host 2:
I think he did. I think he voted third party and she's saying that's useless.

Host 1:
Okay. Well, you and I have differing opinions on this as well, at least currently. I don't think you can have an overnight change. 

Host 2:
I tried to find something we agreed on, but it seems like we have a fundamental disagreement over what's more important, fixing the system long term or preventing short-term harm. And also in political engagement, I go to protests, I phone bank, and the injustices in our political system are important to me. He doesn't seem to have an opinion other than “Everything sucks, tear it down.” I think this would cause problems long term. Do I suck if this is why I turn him down? 

Host 1:
No, you don't suck.

Host 2:
I don't, yeah, I don't think she [00:14:00] sucks. Especially six weeks in, like… 

Host 1:
Right. I mean, I don't get why this is weighing on her at all. 

Host 2:
Yeah. I think some of the things she said are dumb. But I think she's valid for wanting to end things with someone who doesn't have the same understanding of the world she does. Especially at six weeks. 

Host 1:
Yeah, no, I think political differences are like, a pretty well-known reason for relationships not working out, or...

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
You know, differences of opinion on that matter are not usually compromisable. 

Host 2:
Yeah, I agree. I think the only thing that bothers me about this is like, she's making assumptions about who he is. Like she said I want somebody who leans left, at least a little bit. 

Host 1:
Well, he's claiming to be agnostic. Why would you think that she's making an assumption about that? 

Host 2:
Because he, like, he was saying something about the DNC's pushing out Bernie Sanders, and I think if you're Voting Bernie Sanders, you are probably left leaning.

Host 1:
[00:15:00] Sure. 

Host 2:
Sure. [laughs] I do agree with him on a lot of things. I don't think it's normal to say you're politically agnostic. I think that's just very avoidant. 

Host 1:
Mhm. Yeah.

Host 2:
Or it shouldn't be normal, I guess. 

Host 1:
What other areas of life do you think you should not be agnostic on? 

Host 2:
God. 

Host 1:
Wow. Straight to the heart.

Host 2:
I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. What do you mean? 

Host 1:
As in, like, a personal attack. 

Host 2:
Personal attack… 

Host 1:
On me. 

Host 2:
No, no, I'm talking about what, like, your question. What other areas?

Host 1:
Well, yeah, what other areas of life? Politics? You maybe shouldn't be on the fence about or on, like, uncertain about. 

Host 2:
Um, your favorite ice cream flavor.

Host 1:
You should definitely have one of those? 

Host 2:
Yeah. If you prefer to ride a bicycle or a tricycle.  You don't have an answer? You're agnostic?

Host 1:
So like, children versus adults? What do you mean? 

Host 2:
Yeah, what about you? 

Host 1:
Do you prefer tricycle? 

Host 2:
No, bicycle for sure. I'm a bicycle girly. [00:16:00] So anyway, what's your...

Host 1:
I don't know, I hadn't thought about it until now. 

Host 2:
Okay. 

Host 1:
Isn't that funny and ironic?

Host 2:
Why did you ask the question? I don't know, I thought maybe you'd have some kind of like insightful answer for us. 

Host 2:
Me?!

Host 1:
Yeah. 

Host 2:
Today? 

Host 1:
Today. 

Host 2:
On the end of the week? 

Host 1:
On the end of the week. 

Host 2:
On the holy day of Friday? 

Host 1:
One thing we didn't address, why do we call this Secondhand Therapy? It almost feels like a session.

Host 2:
It almost does. Every time we talk feels like a session, TBH. 

Host 1:
Well, that's…

Host 2:
Cheers to that. 

Host 1:
I'm agnostic on how I feel about that. 

Host 2:
I'm very gnostic about how I feel about that. Is that the right word? Gnostic. Gnostic. 

Host 1:
Yeah. Where were we? 

Host 2:
I think we just like said, “Girl, why are you being stupid? Just do whatever you want.” To that girl.

Host 1:
Yeah, like breaking up at six weeks is really not… I don't think you should worry about how you're perceived at that point. 

Host 2:
Literally. 

Host 1:
Or at really any point. Like you have a right to break up with somebody for [00:17:00] whatever reason that you— 

Host 2:
Yeah, and if he's already like speaking over her like I just spoke over you, sorry [laughs].

Host 1:
I love being interrupted, so it's okay.

Host 2:
He's already doing that and being mean to her friends, like, you know, obviously I want to put a disclaimer here. We don't know if this [*****] is telling the truth about anything, we don't know how accurate her perception of reality is…

Host 1:
Oh no, are you getting at me with this? Did you come up with a fake story like I didn't do on our first episode?

Host 2:
No, I didn't. This is like a real story. But I'm just saying people's perceptions of their issues, their conflicts with other people, is 100% affected by the way they grew up, the people around them. Maybe this guy actually didn't say he's politically agnostic, but he just said he doesn't vote, you know? And she took it to be he's politically agnostic because I myself do not vote in the, the main [****]ing elections if I don't believe in the person who's running. And I don't [00:18:00] think that's, like, there should be a witch hunt after me or I don't think people should call me apolitical when I'm actually a very political person, you know? So… You know, we're just going to take it at face value. At face value, we believe her, and he shouldn't be politically agnostic or whatever she calls him.

Host 1:
Mhm. 

Host 2:
Mhm.

Host 1:
Yeah... 

Host 2:
That's a very man thing to do, TBH.

Host 1:
Feeling a little on the fence about that one, but we can discuss that maybe at a later session. Okay. So generally speaking, do you think that she was right to—I mean, if she did break up with him?

Host 2:
Yeah. Absolutely, like, live your life, girl. Break up with him. Like, why are you asking? 

Host 1:
Live your life, break up. I agree, I think she should break up with this guy. I think, first of all, it's not been long enough for you to be considering this that deeply. Second of all, if your values don't align on critical life aspects, then there's no reason to continue this.

Host 2:
Yeah, I agree. 

Host 1:
Case closed. 

Host 2:
The case is closed. 

Host 1:
 Secondly, [00:19:00] I've got a story for you. 

Host 2:
Go ahead. 

Host 1:
Are you ready for it? 

Host 2:
I'm listening. 

Host 1:
Alright. So this was on the Two Hot Takes subreddit, posted last year in October. So fairly recently, a few months ago. This was “Am I the asshole because I don't want to take my wife to a work dinner?”

Host 2:
[drink sloshing sound]

Host 1:
That was so cute—that sound.

Host 2:
[laughs] He is the asshole. 

Host 1:
So you say so far, “Yes”? 

Host 2:
Yeah, because he also said I don't want to take her; he didn't say like I can't take her, you know? 

Host 1:
Mmm, that's, you know what, you are reading between the lines, but it's working out. 

Host 2:
[laughs] Alright, go ahead. 

Host 1:
So let me just read it for you. Maybe you'll get a different perspective on it. I have a very good position at work, where I'm general head of the financial department. I must admit that I benefited a little from nepotism to get into the job, but not to get the position I'm currently in. I'm married to Lissy (fake name). My wife didn't even go to college. She has no [00:20:00] education beyond high school. So we live off my income mainly, and she does hobbies like nail art and that kind of thing at a beauty salon. So she doesn't need a college degree. I also want to say that my wife is a fairly simple and a bit simple person. Likewise, she doesn't like complicated eating. Lissy will only use a spoon and/or fork. According to my wife, she doesn't like to get complicated, so she'll simply use her hands and the cutlery she chose. That said, next Saturday there will be a dinner with the heads of the different departments, managers, and some employees. It's quite a luxurious place. I've never taken my wife to this type of thing because of all of the above. However, this time they sent an invitation to my house, and it was my wife who received it. 

Host 2:
Let me stop you there. Is he saying he's never taken her to a nice restaurant, or is he saying he's never taken her to a work dinner? 

Host 1:
I was assuming a work function, but you may have a point there. It could be, it could have extended further… What would you think of either of those? 

Host 2:
I mean, if it's the work dinner, I mean, like, whatever, sometimes you don't have to [00:21:00] take your partner, but, like, you never took her out? I hope that's not it. 

Host 1:
That he's never taken her to any kind of fine dining or—

Host 2:
Yeah, she deserves—Lissy deserves better. Free Lissy. 

Host 1:
[laughs] Okay, so the invitation says that I can bring companions, but I've told my wife that she will not go with me. I've not told her the reason why I don't want her to go to that dinner with me. I've given her several excuses, such as I want to go alone to enjoy one night with my colleagues; no one will bring a companion; it'll be uncomfortable because no one knows you. But she's really insisting too much on wanting to go. Am I the asshole if I tell my wife why I don't want her company at that dinner?

Host 2:
If he tells his wife, actually, yes, like you should not be telling her that. People in power live by a certain type of, like, “Look at me, I have this status,” right? And having a certain kind of eating etiquette is part of that status. And you want to fit in so you can get your bonus, you can get your reward. This is just like corporate life, whatever, but you sell your soul to the devil. So actually, I think it's very [00:22:00] valid of him to be like, "They're really judgmental people, and I don't want them to judge you." I feel like that's very fair.

Host 1:
Hm… 

Host 2:
But it is not fair to say, “You eat like a heathen” [laughs], or whatever, like I feel like he would say.

Host 1:
So you do approve of his tactics then—of like, you know, skirting the issue and just saying, “Oh, well, they don't allow people to come with their partners or their companions.” 

Host 2:
No, I didn't say that.

Host 1:
Oh. 

Host 2:
No, I was just saying, like, he shouldn't say it like the way he's implying, you know. 

Host 1:
Oh, the way he’s writing the post?

Host 2:
She's simple, like, “You're simple. I don’t want you near my coworkers,” like, that's gross. Like don't call your wife simple. 

Host 1:
Mhm. 

Host 2:
I mean, you can mean simple as in like, oh, she's not complicated, doesn't like cause issues, whatever, but like—

Host 1:
She's low maintenance. 

Host 2:
Yeah. But what he means is she's, like, country, or whatever, I don't know. She's simple. 

Host 1:
Oh, that's also… I don't even like that description.

Host 2:
I mean, I'm just translating from my language, but [00:23:00] he's saying like, she's uneducated, like, he mentions that, like, why does he mention that? There's plenty of uneducated, really rich people in high places who know the etiquette, right? 

Host 1:
There's also plenty of uneducated, not rich people that don't need to be spoken about this way.

Host 2:
Literally. 

Host 1:
No one needs to be spoken about this way. And also, how are you calling this your wife, and this is the way that you describe her? 

Host 2:
Yeah, like she's just an accessory to his life. 

Host 1:
I don't even think she's an accessory. She's like a little shoelace. 

Host 2:
Disposable. Oh wow. 

Host 1:
That's what she is to him: a shoelace.

Host 2:
Wow. Wow. 

Host 1:
I mean, that's actually got functional value. 

Host 2:
She has functional value to him. 

Host 1:
Does she? 

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
What value does she bring? 

Host 2:
He doesn't say it in the post. 

Host 1:
Well, the first thing that, that struck me was the line, let me find it…

Host 2:
But what I'm saying is, she shouldn't just have functional value, she should also just have emotional value to him. And it sounds like he's—

Host 1:
I don't think she has value to him. 

Host 2:
I [00:24:00] don't think he's showing that at all, yeah. 

Host 1:
Yeah, the way he speaks about her is really leaving a lot to be desired, to say the least. But the line, “I must admit that I benefited a little from nepotism to get into the job.” 

Host 2:
Oh, I didn't hear that part. Damn. 

Host 1:
Yeah, and then he says, “But not to get the position I'm currently in.” It's like, a little bit of nepotism gets me by. 

Host 2:
[laughs]

Host 1:
You know, like, you can't get a little bit of nepotism. 

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
It's almost like he's saying well, I'd be here regardless of whether nepotism got me that other position that I was in before this one.

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
But she can't, because she doesn't have a degree; she's simple; she's, like, illiterate. Like… 

Host 2:
Yeah. I mean, did he say anything positive about her?

Host 1:
He said she has hobbies. 

Host 2:
That is neutral. 

Host 1:
He said that her name is Lissy. 

Host 2:
That's not even her real name. 

Host 1:
That's not her real name. She has no education beyond high school. They live off his income mainly. She does hobbies, like nail art, which I've never heard of. I guess that is like a thing. 

Host 2:
How do you [00:25:00] not know about nail art? 

Host 1:
I don't follow nail things. 

Host 2:
I literally just showed you a video the other day of nail art. 

Host 1:
Oh, you did. And it was like, what was the, the art?

Host 2:
I don't even remember. It was just cool. Like, it's actually really hard. Nail art is actually really hard. 

Host 1:
I bet it is, because there's such little surface area to be working with…

Host 2:
Yeah, but he doesn't for one second say, like, you know, she's so talented, I'm so proud of her, but, I, I'm insecure about this. And he doesn't actually, like, open up and say any of that, which means he thinks she's lower than him.

Host 1:
Oh, he definitely thinks that. 

Host 2:
What do you think about him telling her how I phrased it earlier? 

Host 1:
What was that? Remind me. 

Host 2:
I was saying like, I think he should be honest with her, but in a very polite way. Here's the thing, I don't think he has these actual feelings. But, if I were him, I would be like, you know, “These people are so hoity toity, and they're very judgmental, and I don't want to expose you to that. But I would love for you to come, like, do you mind if like, [00:26:00] we do things this way, or do you mind if like, we, I don't know, watch a YouTube tutorial?” I don't, I have no idea. 

Host 1:
Yeah, no, I, I do appreciate the idea of first of all, it sounds like you're suggesting he should place the sort of the burden of the responsibility on the higher-ups and the people who are controlling his position rather than on her for being less knowledgeable about these etiquette things.

Host 2:
It's like, okay, etiquette, cool, whatever, like fancy schmancy, but like that doesn't make you a better person, and he's equating it to that. 

Host 1:
Yeah, and the second thing I did appreciate about your latest suggestion (I'm not sure if this was part of the initial recommendation), but the idea that he should, like, if he has these skills and he is judging her for not having them, then that's like your fault.

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
You know, like you should be teaching her or asking her to participate in this shared experience where you're both learning these things together if you're not confident in your own abilities. 

Host 2:
Yeah. The only thing is, like, I think if he's doing that without the part about [00:27:00] opening up about being insecure, I think, like, I would be like, “No, thank you, I'm good.” 

Host 1:
The partner would say that, maybe? 

Host 2:
Yeah. I mean, if I were her, I'd be like, “Oh, no, no, no, I'm good, I know how to use a spoon and fork.” Also, plenty of people around the world do not use a knife in their daily eating. 

Host 1:
Well, then, he should go into it acting completely ignorant and say, like, “Look, I realized at the last thing that I was really unprepared for how this went and, like, I need to, like, brush up on my etiquette And so like do you mind if we did this together because I feel a little bit out of my, you know, element,” or whatever.

Host 2:
Yeah, I agree. And then I think another option is to just also be like, tell her, like be honest about that insecurity at first and then be like, “You know what? But [****] them. Like, I don't care about them. This is, like, absolutely normal. You're coming with me.” I think that's what I would actually appreciate if I were her.

Host 1:
Yeah, I mean, I would probably go into it that way anyway, because it's like, this is the person that you're committed to, not your work buddies or your boss or whatever. 

Host 2:
Yeah. Yeah. [00:28:00] 

Host 1:
But let me just mention to you a bit of the top comment here on this one. 

Host 2:
Alright. 

Host 1:
They agreed: “You're absolutely the asshole.” I think that was our verdict, even though we didn't officially, you know, grant it. But, they said, the condescension here is palpable. What is the function of “even” in this sentence? Meaning the sentence, “My wife didn't even go to college.” As in, that's the default or whatever. I don't know what the idea there was, but… They say, at the end, they kind of summarize it and say that you're lying to your wife just because you're ashamed of her, when he says that companions aren't allowed and so on. 

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
It says you're ashamed of the person with whom you've chosen to spend your life because of cultural differences with your coworkers. You don't owe them anything. You could die tomorrow and by Monday someone else would have your job.

Host 2:
Period. 

Host 1:
By contrast, you did make vows to her. So she should be the most important person in your life. Let me be clear: You don't owe [****] all to Gary in accounting, but you do owe honor and respect to your wife. So yes, you are the asshole. 

Host 2:
Good. Very good answer. Yeah, I mean, people who work in [00:29:00] corporate America, which is most of us, like, get over it. [laughs] Literally get over it. Your allegiance is not to your job. Your allegiance is to your family, and they have it, they have us twisted, you know. You have to have loyalty to your job because you have loyalty to your family, you need to provide for your family, blah, blah, blah. It is not about that. You should not have allegiance to your job over your family. 

Host 1:
Some people do. I don't know. I guess it's easy to see where he could get the idea that, if I advance in my career, then that's going to benefit us both. But at the same time, it's like, yeah, you the commitment you made was to your wife, not your workplace.

Host 2:
Yeah, like advance at your career at what cost? 

Host 1:
Yeah. This is like not a hill to die on, really. Like… 

Host 2:
Yeah. Eating with a knife? Like, come on. 

Host 1:
Someone else says, and I agree with this wholeheartedly, take her or not, but maybe try liking your wife a little. 

Host 2:
Yeah, kind of gross how he talks about her. I agree. I just think if you're with somebody and you're talking about them that way, maybe reconsider being with that person.

Host 2:
Period, poo. [00:30:00] Yeah, he's an asshole. Verdict? 

Host 1:
Verdict. Case closed. Case closed. 

Host 2:
Alright. 

Host 1:
We can do our termination session with these people. 

Host 2:
What do you mean? Oh, so we terminate if they're an asshole? 

Host 1:
Yeah. 

Host 2:
Do you ever, do you ever look, I mean they're pretty much all assholes. Do you ever look for, um, updates? When you find a good one? 

Host 1:
Yeah, that one didn't have any. I do that fairly frequently, actually. 

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
Do you? 

Host 2:
Yeah, I have tried, not always, but yeah. 

Host 1:
Tried and failed? 

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
You got another one? 

Host 2:
I got another one lined up, you ready? 

Host 1:
Is it another political? 

Host 2:
Not political, I don't think. I think it's more like personal life. I mean, there is mention of a religion, but it's not about that. It's about like the relationship between the people. You ready? 

Host 1:
Yes, I'm now adequately prepared.

Host 2:
So this is a from also from Am I the Asshole? from one month ago. The title is Am [00:31:00] I the asshole for telling my wife if she converts to Islam I’m divorcing her? Silence. [laughs]

Host 1:
Go on. 

Host 2:
Silence. Okay. No, first impressions? 

Host 1:
I mean, my first thoughts are honestly, again, you have a right to get divorced or break up with somebody for whatever reason you feel like. 

Host 2:
For whatever reason. But you also have a right to not take your partner to the dinner with you for whatever reason. Just from hearing that title, we were both like, yeah, he's an asshole. Right? Like, from this— 

Host 1:
Wait, what was the title again? 

Host 2:
It was like, Am I the asshole for not taking my wife? 

Host 1:
I don't, I didn't necessarily think he was an asshole from that, and neither did you, actually. Am I the asshole because I don't want to take my wife to a work dinner?

Host 2:
I mean, I said yes, he's an asshole. 

Host 1:
You did say that, actually. But you did also say because it was because he said, “I don't want.” 

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
Not, “I can't.” 

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
So, I don't get what, what is the purpose here? Are you trying not to let me have my own opinion? 

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
Okay. 

Host 2: 
[00:32:00] No, I'm just saying there's a little bit of hypocrisy there.

Host 1:
I think it would be good if we—

Host 2:
We read the rest of the story. 

Host 1:
Yeah. That too, but also if we did have different—

Host 2:
Opinions? 

Host 1:
Yeah. Because otherwise, what's the purpose of having two people say the same thing? 

Host 2:
Secondhand Therapy! 

Host 1:
Second brain. 

Host 2:
Alright, it says, been married four years and together for seven.

Host 1:
Mmk. 

Host 2:
Love my wife with all my heart. 

Host 1:
Not all of it. 

Host 2:
Okay. 

Host 1:
We can agree on that part. Maybe there's parts of it that you're not so in love with. 

Host 2:
Yeah. We started dating back in high school and have been inseparable since. Back when we started dating, she was a Christian. I am an atheist and not super thrilled about religion in general. Thoughts? 

Host 1:
Mmk. Well, I'm getting a little more on board with your perspective. If there were strong views of a certain religion and they both shared those initially and then grew apart in that [00:33:00] respect, over time. That would make more sense to me than this where it's like all religions suck but this one is especially sucky. 

Host 2:
This one’s suckier.

Host 1:
Yeah, I don't appreciate that, really.

Host 2:
Yeah. Well, she ended up falling out of Christianity after a couple years of dating and has gone with the agnostic label since. Look at that, another agnostic mention.

Host 1:
A theme. 

Host 2:
A theme. The last handful of months, though, she seemed to be interested in Islam. She'd watch YouTube videos about it, and I noticed she had a Quran app on her phone. I asked her what's going on, and she said she's been feeling a call to be Muslim. I asked her how and why, and she said she saw some videos of a street preacher, and it made her look into it, and now says it connects to her more than Christianity did. Thoughts?

Host 1:
She has a right to do that. 

Host 2:
Yup. He elaborates and says, She's the type who goes through a lot of phases though, so I assumed it was just [00:34:00] a phase and short-term interest. So it seemed like he wasn't alarmed at first. 

Host 1:
Mmk. 

Host 2:
Okay. 

Host 1:
Got it. 

Host 2:
Well, the other day she came up to me and said she wanted to get a prayer mat and wanted to try wearing a hijab, a headscarf for our viewers, or our audience. 

Host 1:
If you're viewing, then I really commend you for your abilities.

Host 2:
Yeah. We live right outside Dearborn, Michigan, which is one of the largest hubs of Muslims outside the Middle East. And I was saying that is definitely not one of the largest hubs of Muslims outside the Middle East. It's maybe one of the largest hubs in America. 

Host 1:
Mhm. I've heard this. From you, I think.

Host 2:
Probably. She asked if I'd want to go with her to pick them up or if I'd be okay with these things. 

Host 1:
Okay… 

Host 2:
Thoughts? 

Host 1:
I'll relay my thoughts when I have them. 

Host 2:
Okay. I'm trying to give you space. I told her that I'm not comfortable with it and I would probably want to separate if she started wearing a hijab, especially. [00:35:00] She got pretty sad I said that and asked why and I told her I’m not interested in being with someone who is religious, especially not someone who is visibly religious to the point they won't show their hair. She said she understands why I might not like it, but threatening to divorce her over it means I don't love her. I do love her, but I'm not willing to become part of the Muslim community or to be with a woman who wears a hijab, or someone who would have to start eating halal, and stop and pray multiple times a day. Christianity was okay because she wasn't overtly religious, and was already waning in it by the time we started dating. She says she doesn't know what she wants to pursue but is really upset that I'd leave her if she chose to fully convert to Islam. 

Host 1:
Hmm. This is a conundrum here. I mean, there are more visible aspects of certain religions than others.

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
For sure. The fact that he's that concerned about it, it's like he's more [00:36:00] concerned about appearances than about the actual values that his partner holds. 

Host 2:
Yeah, literally. 

Host 1:
Which concerns me. 

Host 2:
Mhm. 

Host 1:
I think if he is opposed to having a partner who's religious in any sort of capacity, then it shouldn't matter what religion they are involved with.

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
Or, believe in. I think, honestly, what bothers me most is that he isn't interested in asking or learning what prompted this move toward this other religion from the previous religion or from agnosticism or whatever kind of intermediate phase, to quote him, she was having, but I'm just curious to know what… What does this religion provide her with that other religions haven't, or that atheism or agnosticism haven't given her? 

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
What exactly does wearing the hijab mean to her? Why is it important for her to, to do that? And what does it signify? What does it mean? 

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
Just understanding her perspective more. It doesn't seem to be a priority for him, which is the most, like, the worst [00:37:00] thing about this, I think. It's that he has no sense of curiosity at all. 

Host 2:
Yeah, like, does he even care about her? Like, he's like— 

Host 1:
I think he just, yeah, I think he, again, I think it's an appearances thing: he cares about what they look like together. 

Host 2:
Yeah. Like, I love her with all my heart, but not if she wears a hat, or like, something covering her hair.

Host 1:
Mhm. 

Host 2:
I can't do that. That's really strange to me, and also not if she starts praying five times a day, which like we all have habits, like we do every day. Like I go to the bathroom ten times a day. Is my partner gonna be like— 

Host 1:
That might be an underestimate.

Host 2:
[laughs] It might be an underestimate. Is my partner gonna one day be like, “Well I'm uncomfortable that you're now going to the bathroom 13 times a day”?

Host 1:
People are watching. They're watching you. And at work, too, you know? Can't be having that happen.

Host 2:
So, like, isn't that so weird? Also, the policing of what women wear… 

Host 1:
It's interesting, because these stories do tie together, or at least the last two posts—this one and the one that I just read about the guy, you know, not bringing his wife to the work [00:38:00] dinner. It's like, it's not really even about who they are as people. It's about how they're presenting themselves in public. 

Host 2:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it makes me feel like, like, are these men actually in love with these people? Are they actually committed to the people or what they provide for them, like, what they look like with them, what status they give them?

Host 1:
Well, and I'll say this too, because I did emphasize the questions that he wasn't asking her. On her end, I think she should also ask, What is the importance of us having these shared values of agnosticism or atheism? What does that bring to your life that enhances it in this way that you feel is being undermined by my conversion?

Host 2:
Yeah, I mean, I don't know, like, I think that's his responsibility to say, honestly. 

Host 1:
I think he should definitely initiate the conversation, because he's the one who seems most bothered by the change. 

Host 2:
Yeah, and like, even in this post, he just says, I do love her, but I'm not willing to become part of the Muslim community, or to be with a woman who wears hijab, or has to eat halal, or has to pray multiple times a day.[00:39:00] Christianity was okay, she wasn't overtly religious—He's not really explaining what bothers him. I, I think he's, yeah. Go ahead. I think he's Islamophobic. 

Host 1:
Oh yeah. No, I definitely think there seems to be something different about this than the Christianity. Which he tries to skirt by saying, “Oh, well she was on the verge of, unconverting from, or not ‘converting,’ but, you know, removing herself from the Christian religion.”

Host 2:
Yeah, yeah. Like he's downplaying her participation in it, probably. 

Host 1:
Right. Or like her engagement in it, yeah.

Host 2:
Also, I want to say something about specifically about Americans and Islam. There seems to be, I mean—no, there not, doesn't seem to be—it's absolutely like, this was like, an American propaganda point: That Islam and the Middle East and all these quote unquote, “third world countries,” there's like a mysticism in how they practice religion, that Western religion doesn't have. Western religion is absolutely the standard, the gold standard. Like, this is how you live your life. Jesus loves you, blah, blah, blah. [00:40:00] Like your sins are forgiven. But as soon as you have to like pray in a way that doesn't look like Western prayer, or as soon as your cultural attire doesn't look like Western cultural attire, it is like mystical. It's like… otherworldly, and it makes it seem like it's such an absurd idea for her to want to wear a headscarf. Like why the fuck would you want to wear a headscarf? Are you nuts? Like you want to be visibly tied to something that is so like mystical and bad? Why would you do that? That is like very much like throughout this when I was reading it, I was like, yeah, he's, he has drunk the Kool Aid.

Host 1:
Yeah. I do wonder how he would have responded if the difference was that she had just gotten stronger in her beliefs in the Christian religion, like she had just gone to church more frequently and done volunteering with her church Congregation or whatever.

Host 2:
Or if she had taken up Buddhism and started practicing yoga. 

Host 1:
Sure. Whatever it—

Host 2:
I think he would have been so fine with that. 

Host 1:
If [00:41:00] it's, if there's no visible indication that she's like participating in this—

Host 2:
No, but, like, even that, there was a, there would be a physical indication, right? She would be wearing a lot of like athleisure. 

Host 1:
Yeah, but that's acceptable in society. 

Host 2:
Yeah. And putting up tapestries and whatever, whatever those girls do. More power to them. But I'm just saying that why is that acceptable? Because those are dubbed religions of peace. Whereas it's definitely, this is definitely Islamophobia. 

Host 1:
I am curious to hear what the congregation thought.

Host 2:
What the comments say? Let's see. So… The top comment says, “Not the asshole. People get divorced for all kinds of reasons. If she changes from the person you married to a different person, you don't have to stay married.” 

Host 1:
Can you remind me what the title was again? When I said that essentially that?

Host 2:
Am I the asshole for telling my wife if she converts to Islam I'm divorcing her?

Host 1:
Yeah, I don't know, because I have I haven't heard of people converting for, you know marriage. Yeah. [00:42:00] So, I think it's an ultimatum that a lot of people have of differing… 

Host 2:
Beliefs?

Host 1:
Yeah. 

Host 2:
Yeah. The thing is, like, if he were feeling like he's being put into a corner of oh, I don't want to convert though, like, she's pushing on, this on me, but it doesn't seem like that's what he's saying. It seems like he just doesn't like that she's doing it, you know? It would be different if he's like, you know, well, I, just so you know, I can't participate in this. Are you okay with it? But he never said that. 

Host 1:
Well, I'll say another, another aspect that we haven't really touched on is the kids, you know, or children. I don't know if this couple plans to pursue that avenue, but that's an important part, too, that we haven't really talked about. I think that it's more legitimate to me if somebody says, “Well, I don't know that we can remain together if this is, if our beliefs differ this far apart because I don't know how we're gonna be able to navigate kids together.”

Host 2:
Mhm. Yeah, I agree. This other person says, “Not the asshole if she changes what the relationship is about. Then [00:43:00] the relationship has changed and there are consequences for that.” So that's something I want to talk about, like this person and the last person, they both said, “She's changed since you married her.” 

Host 1:
Yeah. 

Host 2:
“You're allowed to divorce her.” And yeah, like, valid, but also, like, people change. Like they're saying it so, in such a blasé way, like…

Host 1:
Well, they've been together seven years, so I think that deserves a little more consideration than just, uh, oh, well, she's changed, so, you know, yeah overnight, let's just get this over with. I think it's there's something deeper there to be thought over. I don't think he's an asshole for wanting to divorce her for having different beliefs than him. I think he's an asshole for the way he's conveyed his differences of opinion.

Host 2:
Yeah, I agree. Someone says, the Muslim faith has little to no space for Muslim women to be married to non-Muslim men, so she's technically divorcing you. [laughs] I think that's interesting, because she literally didn't say anything about that. She's just like, “I'm interested in practicing this faith.” Also, like, when you practice a faith, you don't have to practice every [00:44:00] single tenet of the faith, you know? 

Host 1:
Oh, you don't?

Host 2:
You can be imperfect, right? This one person says, I don't care what religion it is, if my wife went fundamentalist, I'd be hitting the bricks. I can't live with someone that religious, and I can barely stomach mildly religious influence on my life. So, this is my, that's what I was trying to say earlier. This person is saying, this person is calling her a fundamentalist because she wants to pray and wear a scarf. And like there, that's what I'm saying. There's this huge mysticism as if, like, once you start doing that, you're going to next, next step is, like, you're going to blow up a block in New York City or something. It's crazy, right? 

Host 1:
It's a little far out there, yeah. 

Host 2:
This one person said I would dump my wife too if she wanted to join a cult. And then this person said, why would any sane woman want to convert to Muslim? Yikes. Maybe get the grammar right.

Host 1:
Very, very one sided here on [00:45:00] Reddit. Dot com.

Host 2:
If she converts, this isn't the person I married and fell in love with, it's something else, he said.

Host 1:
It. 

Host 2:
[laughs] Yeah. 

Host 1:
Wow, she's become just some otherworldly creature. 

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
You ready for this next one? 

Host 2:
Yeah, I can find one that's not about politics or religion. 

Host 1:
Here's another one. 

Host 2:
Okay. 

Host 1:
It's my turn. Alright, you ready? 

Host 2:
[hiccups] I'm ready. [laughs]

Host 1:
Wow. 

Host 2:
Go ahead. 

Host 1:
The least cute noise I've ever heard. 

Host 2:
Actually, my hiccups are famously cute.

Host 1:
Famously? 

Host 2:
Yeah. Go ahead. 

Host 1:
Who said? 

Host 2:
Go ahead, we're on a time limit. 

Host 1:
We're not on a time limit. We have unlimited time. 

Host 2:
[whispering] I'm literally going to leave.

Host 1: 
Okay, well then I'll just talk to myself. I'm a Capricorn, you're a Capricorn, it's all the same. 

Host 2:
Okay. 

Host 1:
Anyways, this is part one. 

Host 2:
Oh my God! [****] you. Nuh uh!

Host 1:
I didn't intend for this. 

Host 2:
Why did you leave it to last? 

Host 1:
Here's the story. Am I the asshole for digging in my heels about sex and a prenup? [00:46:00] 

Host 2:
Oh, I actually read this. 

Host 1:
You haven't read all of it, though. 

Host 2:
Okay, go ahead. So this was on Am I the Asshole, AITAH. This was posted last month. I honestly can't believe I'm asking this, but my boyfriend has gotten so mad that I'm feeling a little crazy now. Both 34, he had a terrible marriage before me that ended in a dead bedroom, and he's determined to never go back to that life again. Understood, I think that sucked for him to experience. So now he wants a prenup and literally write in the prenup that we will have sex X amount of times a week or else I get absolutely nothing in the divorce. I had already agreed to a 50/50 prenup of marital assets and we keep what we came into the marriage with. Now that's not enough for him. He wants me to prove that I won't stop having sex with him in the future. I tell him I can't prove the future and putting something in writing doesn't prove that. Now he says I must have a guilty conscience if I won't sign these terms, because if I'm so certain it won't happen, then what's the problem? But to me, it makes me feel [00:47:00] like a sex slave and not a loved wife or partner. 

Host 2:
Yeah, what the absolute [****]? 

Host 1:
It's literally a contract. 

Host 2:
Literally, like, for sex. Like, everyone's like, oh, marriage is a contract. Marriage… This is like a sex contract! [laughs]

Host 1:
It is. I looked it up. I looked up the legitimacy of this.

Host 2:
Is it real? You can do it?

Host 1:
You can. You can actually put sex in your, your prenups. But it does say that generally they're not going to be enforced because of public policy grounds. 

Host 2:
Like rape? 

Host 1:
And it says that it's because a prenuptial agreement that includes sex is in fact a sex contract, and you generally can't contract for sex. Generally. 

Host 2:
So is it valid or not? I don't understand. 

Host 1:
You can include it in there, but it's not going to be enforced by the legal system. 

Host 2:
Yeah. I mean, just sign it, and then take all of the money. Honestly! [laughs] 

Host 1:
I think all of it would be null at that point. 

Host 2:
Oh, like the whole prenup? 

Host 1:
The entire prenup. 

Host 2:
I would marry him for like two days and then take all his money.

Host 1:
There are some other things that can't be included in a prenup, [00:48:00] which I just want to alert the viewers to, I mean, the listeners to. 

Host 2:
I thought this was Secondhand Therapy, not Secondhand Legal Advice. 

Host 1:
Well, this is also coming from AI, so just take it for what it's worth. 

Host 2:
Secondhand AI…

Host 1:
Advice.

Host 2:
Legal Advice. 

Host 1:
Yes. 

Host 2:
Okay, go ahead. There are certain limitations on what can be included in a prenup. Financial matters are usually the source of, you know, prenup agreements. You cannot have issues related to children, including child support and custody. Those are not generally permitted in a prenup agreement.

Host 2:
I'm surprised. 

Host 1:
They're generally determined by family courts based on the best interests of the child. 

Host 2:
At, like, at the time of divorce. 

Host 1:
At the time of divorce, right. 

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
Marital obligations. So, it says you cannot contract about obligations during the marriage itself. For example, household chores—you can't dictate specific household chores or responsibilities.

Host 2:
Reminds me of the roommate contract we had to sign in undergrad.

Host 1:
It does! Was that legally binding? 

Host 2:
No. 

Host 1:
I mean, it may not have been, based on this. 

Host 2:
No, but I felt like it was. I was like, “Oh my god, I don't want [00:49:00] to sign this. This is scary.” It was, I remembered it was yellow. 

Host 1:
We should have put in there, the temperature must be, you know.

Host 2:
I think we did the last year. But she didn't listen, she didn't care. 

Host 1:
Oh my God. 

Host 2:
If you're out there, you know who you are. 

Host 1:
You know who you are. And you know that you keep it at 65 damn degrees Fahrenheit. 

Host 2:
Dude, it was like 62. 

Host 1:
62! It was a tundra in there. 

Host 2:
Mhm. 

Host 1:
The second marital obligation that you cannot contract about includes frequency of sexual relations. It says you cannot set a specific frequency for sexual relations in the prenup. 

Host 2:
I mean, makes sense because… ew! [laughs]

Host 1:
The next is penalties for adultery, which doesn't make sense to me because it says while some couples include lifestyle clauses with penalties for infidelity, it's essential to consult legal advice to ensure enforceability. So if you are thinking about this for your own prenup agreements, dear listeners, just know that you should consult your legal counsel about enforceability and your therapist about the morality of it. 

Host 2:
Also, do you think our voices are different enough that everyone knows who we are? 

Host 1:
I think [00:50:00] we both sound a little too much like Morgan Freeman for people to distinguish.

Host 2:
[laughs]

Host 1:
I can't believe that got you again. 

Host 2:
Wait, you said that last time too? 

Host 1:
Yeah. 

Host 2:
I literally don't have a working memory, okay?

Host 1:
That’s not even working, it's just long term, but yeah… 

Host 2:
Yeah, that one. See, I don't even remember that, but I was gonna say, um, I'm curious your opinion on prenups, like would you ever do one?

Host 1:
I might. 

Host 2:
Like in what circumstance? 

Host 1:
Marriage. 

Host 2:
[*****], I know. In what marital circumstance? 

Host 1:
If I've accumulated assets before we were ever together, I don't know, joint bank accounts…

Host 2:
No, but also, don't you love their partner? I mean, don't you love your partner and think they would, or they would deserve half of what you own?

Host 1:
Half of what I own after we've been married. 

Host 2:
Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, I'm just thinking about something that I recently experienced. 

Host 1:
Oh, okay. 

Host 2:
I'm not going to mention it. 

Host 1:
Oh, is it too personal? 

Host 2:
Yeah, keep going.

Host 1:
Alright, so there was a top comment on this one as well. Does he even [00:51:00] have a lawyer? I would think any legal professional would tell him that such a stipulation is unprovable, and in fact undermines the entire prenup. Which I think you did do a little call out to. 

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
Yeah. Yeah. The reply from the original poster, OP, was, No, he doesn't have a lawyer. But did say, when it comes to signing it, he wants a psychiatrist present to witness that I'm not being coerced and can't claim it later. 

Host 2:
Yeah, like, run? Hello?

Host 1:
He believes in psychiatry but— 

Host 2:
Doesn't believe in women's authority, autonomy over their bodies? Huh?

Host 1:
Well, he also doesn't believe in therapy, according to another comment. But it says, another reply to this one, to the original poster was, You can't consent to sex weeks, months, years in advance. Not that you can't try to, I mean it's literally impossible for you or anyone to do so. What he's trying to do is put you in a situation where he will coerce you into sex for the rest of your life, whether you want it or not.

Host 2:
Rape. This is called rape. 

Host 1:
Preach. Yes. Not only is it absolutely disgusting and offensive to you, but any lawyer would tell him it's bat**** [00:52:00] ridiculous. You need to reconsider if you really want to be legally tied to someone who wants you to have no physical autonomy. 

Host 2:
Also like, not just legally tied, but like any sort of ties? Like I bet you this woman also has a host of other issues with this man. Like I don't think this is the only thing. 

Host 1:
Speak of the devil. 

Host 2:
Uh huh. 

Host 1:
Because a month before this, or, the preceding month in December of last year, she posted, Has anyone who wants a submissive woman ever found happiness with one that isn't? in the AskMenRelationships subreddit. 

Host 2:
Wow, okay. 

Host 1:
Any thoughts on that one? 

Host 2:
Run? I mean, like, he's literally trying to stipulate how many times they have sex, and then also, he wants her to be submissive. Like, I mean, how many times, how many red flags do you have to see? It's not that, like, you know, people can't do whatever stuff they want in their, in the bedroom. 

Host 1:
They want. Key words. 

Host 2:
Like I'm not saying like, “Oh, submissive, that’s bad,” whatever. I'm not saying that, but it's like, it's [00:53:00] like… a pattern.

Host 1:
Well, she says my (34F) boyfriend (34M) has a history with a previous marriage where he was sexually neglected to the point it's a genuine trauma now. 

Host 2:
I want to stop you right there. 

Host 1:
Let me also stop you. 

Host 2:
Sexually neglected does not mean… What? The way he's convinced her…

Host 1:
Since then, he's pursued submissive women and almost exclusively open relationships or friends with benefits so he feels in control of getting sex. 

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
If one woman isn't in the mood or available, he had others he could reach out to. When we met, I made it clear I only date in monogamous relationships. He pursued me and ended things with everyone else because he found an emotional connection with me he didn't have with his friends with benefits. 

Host 2:
Hm…

Host 1:
Well, I mean naturally if you're friends with benefit, whatever. I have asked him if he can be happy with me when I'm not a submissive woman. I have a career whereas the women he dated and his previous wife didn't work. He provided everything. I make significantly more money than him, which he has [00:54:00] mentioned several times bothers him. 

Host 2:
Okay, I mean how many red flags do we need? 

Host 1:
I know, I know. This is like infinite right now. 

Host 2:
And like, you don't need him. Go.

Host 1:
You don't need him. 

Host 2:
And actually, he's probably going to take your money in the prenup. 50/50? He's taking your money, [*****]. 

Host 1:
Truth. 

Host 2:
Literally, run. 

Host 1:
Because you, you didn't want to have sex with him. And who would? Who wants to have sex with this man? Let's put a missing poster up. And just ask, “Has anybody ever wanted to have sex with this man?”

Host 2:
[laughs] A missing poster. “Missing: Someone who's ever wanted to have sex with this man.” 

Host 1:
Yes! Missing from the world. 

Host 2:
Willingly, yeah. 

Host 1:
Yet, when I ask if he can truly be happy with me, he tells me it's nice to not have the weight of having to provide solely on his shoulders. It's nice to have a woman that's so intelligent, someone with drive and ambition, and that he absolutely fell in love with how I put myself through graduate school and have accomplished everything on my own.

Host 2:
You know, this is like the modern man. To be honest, can I say something? I've heard so many horror stories from my friends where they're dating a man and he's like, [00:55:00] “Oh, I love you're so independent, but I want you to do everything I say and obey me.”

Host 1:
Right. Like, you have the power to not obey me, but I want you to anyway.

Host 2:
Yeah, and I'm gonna be the provider because I'm the man, but I need you to work and never stop working even though you're gonna be the primary caretaker of our children. Like, men will find any way to spin the world in their direction. 

Host 1:
We've almost run out of our session time here. So I just want to just give you one opportunity to just sort of let me… wrap this up.

Host 2:
Okay, go ahead, tell me. 

Host 1:
Yet, we have arguments all the time if I ever say anything that isn't 100% praising him. On Monday, I told him I wanted salad for dinner. He made soup full of carbs, and it was delicious, and I praised him for how delicious it was and left it at that. On Tuesday, he made burritos. I ate one, told him it was really good (it was), but that I'm dieting and it's not on my diet. Let me just say here, I just want to chime in, because the [00:56:00] statement, “On Tuesday he made burritos,” can really go two ways. Like, it can be like, one of those, like, you know, Mean Girls, like, it's October, whatever the day was… Like, where it's like, “On Tuesday, he made burritos.” 

Host 2:
On Mondays we wear pink? Or Tuesday… Wednesday… whatever it was? 

Host 1:
No, like, what day is it? Like, she asks, she's like, “Hey, what day is it?” What day was it? 

Host 2:
Oh, oh, oh, she asked that guy? 

Host 1:
Yeah, the guy. 

Host 2:
Yeah, I forget his name. He has a weird name, like Norman Dinkle or something. What's his name? 

Host 1:
I don't know. 

Host 2:
Audience, tell us. 

Host 1:
But anyway, it's like, “On Tuesday, he made burritos.”

Host 2:
Like, wow.

Host 1:
Or like, “On Tuesday, he made burritos.”

Host 2:
I mean, I don't think she was saying it in any way. I think she was just saying 

on Tuesday. 

Host 1:
Maybe she was saying it neutrally. 

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
Like, “On Tuesday, he made burritos. I ate one…” 

Host 2:
Yeah, but I was like, you know, “I had said, I'm not trying to eat things like that.” 

Host 1:
That was the key part of that sentence, you're right, you’re right. 

Host 2:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Host 1:
Thank you for pointing that out. 

Host 2:
You're welcome. 

Host 1:
So she was dieting and it's not on her diet. It's been days and he won't look at me because he says I told him that [00:57:00] he was wrong in cooking for me. I never did and have told him at least two dozen times (no exaggeration) since then, that I don't think he's wrong and rejected his act of service for me and I'm guilting him because I reminded him that I've been telling him for four months that I'm dieting. Edit: I'm starting to lose hope here. He's now upset because we aren't having sex. It's been four days. 

Host 2:
Oh wow!

Host 1:
But we aren't having sex because he won't even look at me. Says he wants me to initiate it when he's mad to get him out of the funk. The last time he was mad at me, I got on top of him and offered him a [*******] and he refused because he was mad at me. So this relationship is lose lose, I guess. It's lose lose. 

Host 2:
I agree. But isn't this a month before the prenup question? 

Host 1:
Indeed. 

Host 2:
And she had decided it's a lose-lose? Come on now. 

Host 1:
Yeah, and that was with her update. She said, We broke up. He kept asking for sexual things that he knows I'm semi-uncomfortable with, but I agreed to try. Then he insisted he should be able to have sex with me even at 2:00 AM if he wakes up horny, even if I'm asleep. When I said [00:58:00] “No,” he said it won't work out because he won't be made to feel guilty because he got horny in the middle of the night. 

Host 2:
This is a sexual predator. 

Host 1:
Indeed it is. And I told him that wanting my basic needs met, like sleeping, is not guilting him, and I'm done as well. She said that. 

Host 2:
I bet you he thinks sex is his basic need.

Host 1:
Well, then do it yourself, bud. 

Host 2:
Literally, do it. DIY! Run, girl. I mean, I think she did, right, you said? 

Host 1:
Okay, let me just say, I don't like when people are excusing behaviors because of perceived traumas. 

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
People may have had legitimate traumas that they've gone through in life, and yet it does not excuse [******] behaviors.

Host 2:
Period. Yeah, and like, pretend you care about this woman, but you're just using her.

Host 1:
Oh, here's where it's, where the comment came in. Top comment from CapitalMud8490: He sounds like he needs therapy. And then she says: I would agree, but he says therapy was invented to trick gullible women, so that will never happen.

Host 2:
We don't really even have to commentate on this man, like, he does it [00:59:00] for himself. 

Host 1:
He does. 

Host 2:
This is a rapist literally a rapist, like… 

Host 1:
Who wants it in writing.

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
That, like, his rape is acceptable. 

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
That's ridiculous. 

Host 2:
No, and like, I'm glad she got out, but like… 

Host 1:
But did she? Because a month later…

Host 2:
It said she broke up…

Host 2:
No, that was on the month previous post, and then the prenup came after that. 

Host 2:
Is there no other update past that? I hope she's alive.

Host 1:
Yeah, and hopefully out of this man's life. For good.

Host 2:
Yeah. 

Host 1:
So that's a great note to end on. You know how like on our phone calls, I'll start by adopting a British accent. 

Host 2:
Yeah? 

Host 1:
And then I'll start going like this and then once I'm ready to start ending the phone call—

Host 2:
Mhm. 

Host 1:
Then, then we do our Southern “byes.”

Host 2:
Yeah. By the way, that wasn't a British accent; that was an Australian accent. 

Host 1:
Well I can't do British. 

Host 2:
Yeah. But anyway, no, you can't, you can do British, but that wasn't British. Well, whatever it [01:00:00] was, but yeah. 

Host 1:
Down unda. Down unda, mate. 

Host 2:
Your Australian is very good.

Host 1:
Yeah, it is, mate. I've been down there, been down unda.

Host 2:
Been down under.

Host 1:
A time or two. 

Host 2:
But anyway, anyway, anyway, I don't know why we, we go into Southern when we’re saying goodbye. I mean, maybe it’s a—

Host 1:
Because it's just a nice thing to do. When you're hanging up on somebody, you don't want to be, you know, making them feel like [****].

Host 2:
What do you make them feel like then?

Host 1:
You want to make them feel like, “I didn't mean to hang up on you!”

Host 2:
“You're [*******] boring, that's what you are. I gotta go. I gotta get out of here.”

Host 1:
Well, I don't think a Southerner would say the words G-D. 

Host 2:
I just translated what you just said. 

Host 1:
For, in what language did you? 

Host 1:
From Southerner to, like, not Southerner. [laughs] No, but I think it's because it's comforting. Like, Southern accents comfort— 

Host 1:
I think it is. It's just got a nice little chicken noodle soup all over it.

Host 2:
Exactly. 

Host 1:
That you slaughtered back over last Friday. 

Host 2:
Last Friday? That’s not—

Host 1:
Would that be too long ago? 

Host 2:
That's too long ago. 

Host 1:
I don't know. [01:01:00] 

Host 2:
You're obviously not a country gal. 

Host 1:
I never did slaughter one. 

Host 2:
[laughs] A what? 

Host 1:
The chickens. 

Host 2:
Well, neither have I, but I've got the vibes.

Host 1:
You got the vibes.

Host 2:
I've got the slaughtering chicken vibes. But anyway. 

Host 1:
Anyway, we're going to have to end this one here. 

Host 2:
Alright. 

Host 1:
Alright, bye. 

Host 2:
Alright, darlin'. You, you let, you let Granddaddy know that I said "Hi." [laughs] 

Host 1:
What? Whoa. That took a turn. 

Host 2:
I don't know who I am in this, in this sketch. 

Host 1:
Diddy? Granddiddy? 

Host 2:
Granddiddy. Alright, I think I'm delulu now. 

Host 1:
That's what my cousin says.

Host 2:
Granddiddy? 

Host 1:
She says Granddiddy and Diddy. 

Host 2:
Diddy? 

Host 1:
She calls her Dada “Diddy.” 

Host 2:
You think that's what Diddy means? Apparently he's a bad guy. 

Host 1:
P Daddy? 

Host 2:
Apparently he's a bad guy, by the way. 

Host 1:
Is he? Gosh. You can't find a good man these days. 

Host 2:
You really can’t, Edna. 

Host 1:
A good man is hard to find. [01:02:00] 

Host 2:
That's a good one. You should, you should put that everywhere.

Host 1:
I'm gonna start writing me a story called that. [laughs]

Host 2:
[laughs] Alrighty, audience. Thank you so much for listening. 

Host 1:
Alright, bye Diddy. [laughs] I mean, not P Diddy though. 

Host 2:
No. 

Host 1:
Because—

Host 2:
Rot, P. Diddy.

Host 1:
We don't— [laughs] Rot! 

Host 2:
Goodbye, my loves. 

Host 1:
Bye, chickies.