Mickey: Hey, everybody. Welcome to Secondhand Confessions.

Pugly: Welcome, welcome.

Mickey: This is Anonymous One.

Pugly: Anonymous Two. 

Both: And Big D.

Big D: Big D in the house!

Mickey: Introducing Big D. 

Pugly: Introducing our second guest of all time, Big D.

Big D: I am honored. Hello, everyone.

Mickey: Welcome, Big D. We're honored to have you and hear your perspective on our stories.

Big D: Okay, so we’re commenting…

Mickey: Uh huh… Yes, we are. We’re just, we just like to talk about people.

Big D: Okay, I’m with you on that.

Pugly: We have a confession that someone has submitted to the TrueOffMyChest subreddit that we wanted to discuss a bit.

Big D: Let me hear it.

Pugly: It's called “My negligence cost my partner her life and I'm about to lose everything.”

Mickey: Yikes.

Pugly: I (35M) have been married to Lisa (28F) for three years, together seven. A year ago, I fell deeply in love with Amy (24F) and had been planning to end my marriage for her.

Mickey: It's already juicy.

Pugly: I know it's terrible and not what my wife deserves. But we were the real thing.

Mickey: Who? Him and Lisa, or…?

Pugly: Him and Amy, the new girl. Two weeks ago, she had an allergic reaction when we were getting food after work, but she used her EpiPen and seemed mostly okay afterwards. She usually gets checked at the hospital after a reaction, but I asked if I could take her home and she could get her friend to drive her there because my wife was expecting me back. All I know is that she had a secondary reaction that evening and died.

Mickey: Oh my God. This is Amy…

Pugly: Amy.

Mickey: Amy!

Big D: Amy died.

Pugly: Amy died.

Big D: That solved that problem.

All: [laughs]

Pugly: If you kill Amy. I didn't even find out about it until the following Monday through a work email. It has been eating me up ever since, and I will never forgive myself for not sacrificing an hour of my time to possibly save her. I sent some childish messages to Amy when I didn't hear from her over the weekend because I thought she was angry that I didn't take her to the hospital. I'm thankful she never saw them and ashamed that I assumed the worst.

Big D: He's ashamed of that.

Mickey: Thankful. He's thankful she died and never saw his [inaudible].

Pugly: Essentially, yeah.

Big D: Sounds Grade A.

Pugly: Our relationship was great, and the highs far outweighed the lows, but I have always hated being ignored, and I lose my cool when it happens. It's not a regular occurrence, and I would have more than made it up to her. Yesterday at work, HR and Legal were in the CEO’s office all day, and my manager ended up canceling our project meeting because he was with them all afternoon. I was on edge, but an affair isn't exactly a corporate crisis, and I thought something would have already happened if anyone knew. I am now 99% certain it was about me.

Mickey: Wait. So you think… Oh, you’re not finished reading?

Pugly: No.

Mickey: Oh, okay. Okay. So I'm just wondering if he thinks that they know about the messages or…?

Pugly: Well, a few hours ago, I received a message from Amy's phone, which said “This is Amy's brother, Tom. I want you to know it was me.” I tried to call, but it went straight to voicemail, and none of my messages have been delivered. I tried to call my manager more times than I should have, and he sent a message saying, “Please don't contact me until Monday morning. I can't discuss anything with you right now.” So it looks like my universe is going to collapse.

Mickey: Wait, I want you to know it was me?

Pugly: I think “I want you to know that I got your work involved.”

Mickey: Oh my God. I thought he was saying I killed her. I was like, whoa, twist!

Pugly: I'm going to be fired, and my wife will definitely find out why. All I can do is hope that Amy's brother only showed them the messages from that weekend, and they were bad enough. I have no family except my wife and daughter and nowhere to go. All of my friends are either people I've met through my wife or my colleagues. On Monday, everything I've spent over a decade working towards disappears. I can't stop it. I can't talk to anyone about it. So, here I am. I know cheaters are the devil, so I'm not expecting sympathy, but this is making my chest hurt and I need to get it out there.

Mickey: Is this real? I guess, I mean it’s not—

Pugly: I mean, it's not that unrealistic.

Mickey: Yeah.

Big D: It sounds very possible. But what did he… Did he expect someone to comfort him?

Pugly: Well, this is TrueOffMyChest, so I guess, I don't know what he's expecting here.

Mickey: I wanted to say, um, you kind of did this to yourself. No, but I was going to say something else… Oh yeah, I wanted to know what were the messages he sent her? Like he just, he just said immature messages but like was he like, “I hope you f***ing die, b****!”? [laughs] You're going to have to bleep that out.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: You know? Like how bad was it that he might get fired?

Big D: He was probably recapping everything that he did for her. 

Mickey: Ooh. Like “I was this and this and this for you and you can't even text me back”?

Big D: Yeah.

Mickey: I'm thinking like, he might have mentioned that he didn't, like, “Oh sorry, I didn't take you to the hospital,” and so that they're thinking, you know, they can charge him. But he didn't say anything about police.

Pugly: Is negligence, though, a chargeable offense?

Mickey: Yeah…

Pugly: This guy I think lives in the UK, by the way.

Big D: Maybe if like you're a doctor… [laughs]

Pugly: I don't know, this guy I think is in some kind of business-like industry.

Big D: He seems the type that just wants attention, and the fact that she didn't respond for some time, he probably went apish.

Pugly: Well, one of the top comments gave some extra context here. It says: I needed some more context, so I had to look at his comment history. He used his expense account at work to fund his relationship to keep it separate from his personal finances so his wife wouldn't find out. He texted with his affair partner extensively about how to make their dates look like legitimate expenses. He isn't just her superior at work; he’s her boss’s boss. 

Mickey: Oh my God. 

Pugly: He engineered a promotion for her to a role he thought she wasn't capable of doing, then brought up how she'd lose her job if that ever came out during arguments. He also joked about her owing him sex because of the promotion.

Mickey: Oh my God.

Pugly: He also missed the funeral for his sister-in-law's stillborn baby because he had plans with his affair partner that he'd made months in advance.

Big D: Is this Peter?

Mickey: Huh? [laughs] Who's Peter?

Big D: Wasn’t that—The brother! 

Mickey: Huh?

Pugly: The brother?

Big D: Was his name not Peter?

Mickey: What brother?

Pugly: What brother are you—

Big D: Amy’s brother!

Pugly: Oh, Tom?

Big D: Tom! Yes.

Mickey: Who? Oh, oh!

Big D: He could be the commenter.

Mickey: Oh, maybe. I was like, “Wait, is this a famous case you know of?”

Pugly: Yeah, I was like uh… Peter Piper?

All: [laughs]

Mickey: Okay, so you're, you're asking if it was the brother commenting?

Big D: Yeah.

Pugly: It could be. But they also say: With the anaphylaxis, he didn't know that you have to go to the hospital after you use an EpiPen, and they stayed at the restaurant for a while after her reaction, with her saying she'd be fine and she'd just feel rough the next day. For some reason, nobody called an ambulance despite being in the UK and it not costing any money. The hospital was a half hour drive away and just dropping her off there would have made him an hour late getting home, obviously longer if he stayed at the hospital. For some reason, he couldn't tell his wife that someone had a medical emergency and he took them to the hospital.

Big D: I have a lot of questions.

Mickey: Yes, ask away.

Big D: So, I mean, Amy would have known to take herself to the hospital, but like, was there some type of problem at the restaurant? We need to know what happened at the restaurant.

Pugly: Maybe there, maybe there was a battle—

All: [laughs]

Big D: Sword against sword.

Pugly: I couldn't think of the right word.

Mickey: A duel.

Pugly: Yeah, a duel.

Big D: I can't get that imagery out right now.

Pugly: Um… A war?

Mickey: So, wait, did she not call a friend before he dropped her off to take her to the hospital? I'm not understanding that part.

Pugly: Apparently not. 

Mickey: Because he was like, can I drop you off and someone else takes you? And she said it's fine, right?

Pugly: Yeah, I thought she agreed to that.

Mickey: Yeah, she agreed to it. So did she not call… I would have made sure, like if this is the love of my life and we’re it, me and Amy are it, I would have been like, okay, but call him in front of me so I know you're going to get there.

Big D: Okay. I have an idea. Was this her way out?

Mickey: Ooh… She wanted to die.

Big D: If she was manipulated to that extent…

Pugly: You think she honestly, like, in front of him committed suicide by allergic reaction?

Big D: To trap him! To get him.

Mickey: And she knew he would text her that way because he's probably done it before.

Pugly: Wait. So wait, are you saying that she arranged this so that he would get in trouble with his wife?

Big D: Yes. And the work. He would lose everything. 

Pugly: What a plot.

Mickey: And she probably took off her password. Because how did her brother get in her phone? He took off her password right before it happened.

Big D: How did she not go to the hospital? That's what I'm hung up on.

Pugly: Okay, well, there was an update on this one. The poster did provide an update.

Mickey: Okay, let's hear it.

Pugly: I have been consistently harassed for an update since posting, so please take it, gloat because you're such wonderful people in comparison, then stop following me around Reddit. 

Mickey: Okay.

Pugly: What a joy this man is. 

I am suffering in the wake of my infidelity and unprofessional behavior as I knew I would. I understand that it is an appropriate outcome, and I am taking full accountability. 

Big D: How?

Pugly: I was suspended from work on Monday, and I'll probably be fired sooner than I thought. I'd hoped to be able to save money as HR built their case, but it looks like Amy's brother basically performed the entire investigation for them. After an excruciating three-hour run through of everything they had, I spoke to the founder and he recommended the solicitor I am now using.

Big D: For drugs?

Pugly: Like an attorney.

Big D: Oh. [laughs]

Mickey: I think they call them that in the UK. “For drugs?” [laughs] Nice one, Big D.

Pugly: That's what I'm going to call my dealer.

Big D: The solicitor! [laughs]

Pugly: Just kidding, I don't have a dealer.

Mickey: I am the dealer.Just kidding about that too.

Pugly: Um, the issue is that the company has to come down hard to protect themselves because even though Amy's family doesn't have much of a chance of a claim, any suggestion of a cover up could cause damage, regardless. The founder still thinks my offer to pay them back will keep it out of court, and some more information has come to light, so it's not certain I won't be prosecuted, but I'm quietly hopeful.

Mickey: Pay them back for what? 

Pugly: For the money that he took to go on the dates.

Mickey: Ohhh, okay.

Pugly: I can't afford to keep the solicitor if this goes much further, especially with a divorce on the horizon. Things are not good with my wife. That's an understatement.

Big D: She's like the leftover thought. 

Mickey: It's just not good.

Pugly: My job, my job—no, no longer. But my wife, who cares about that b****? I'm still committed to making this as easy as possible for her, but I had to draw the line when it came to my daughter. When I got home from being unceremoniously escorted out of my office, she already had a bag packed for me. She wouldn't let me wait at the house until my daughter was back. She wouldn't let me check if I had everything that I needed. She wouldn't let me take the car, and she didn't care that I had nowhere to go.

Big D: He sounds still very entitled. I mean, isn't he low… Didn't he reach… What is that saying?

Mickey: Rock bottom, yeah.

Big D: And he still thinks people owe him stuff?

Mickey: Like she doesn't even care that I don't have a bed to sleep on, Oh my God.

Pugly: I spent two nights in a hotel then went back when she refused to let me see my little girl. She tried to stop me, but we owned the house jointly, and it was my only option. My wife has family she could stay with, but she won't leave our daughter here and she's absolutely not taking her, so we're at a stalemate right now.

I'm keeping her out of the way as best I can. I'm keeping, sorry, out of her way as best I can, which I appreciate is the least I can do. The Amy situation is quite difficult to talk about. Oh my God! 

Mickey: My wife, not good. Amy: difficult.

Pugly: And a lot hasn't sunk in yet. It turns out that she didn't love me as much as I loved her, if at all. Her brother sent me images of her talking to her friends about me, and it's hard to believe they came from the person I loved, but they are real. Sorry to those who were heavily invested in me being a predatory abuser, but she and her friends had a good laugh about her manipulating me for money and a promotion. The role came with a big pay raise, and it looks like her plan was to treat it as free cash, then go work with one of her friends when it fell through.

She knew I'd come under scrutiny whenever she messed up and assumed I'd keep stepping in to save her. She was right.

Big D: Is she really dead?

Mickey: Gone Girl.

Big D: Yes!

Pugly: Well, you tell us. You have a little more experience with allergic reactions and that sort of thing.

Mickey: [laughs] Yeah, like after an EpiPen, I mean, aren’t you good?

Big D: Yeah, some Benadryl? You're fine.

Pugly: Is that really true? Because the commenters are saying, um, from my experience with allergic reactions, it is true that EpiPens only save you for so long and then you need to go to the hospital to get checked.

Big D: I mean, I would go to the hospital, but you should be… What… She… ‘Cause… What…

All: [laughs]

Big D: What if she had had an immediate reaction to something she ate? Like she didn't take in a huge quantity, but at the same time—

Pugly: Maybe she was suicide by allergic reaction. Maybe your theory is correct.

Big D: It’s catching on. I just want to know where is her tomb?

All: [laughs]

Big D: I need to know. Is she really dead?

Mickey: We gotta excavate.

Pugly: That’s not gonna verify that she's dead. You need to see the body, not the tomb. 

Big D: Tomb first, then the shovel.

Mickey: What's, what's it called when they take the body out?

Pugly: Exhuming.

Mickey: Exhume. We gotta exhume her.

Pugly: Yeah, we need an exhumation.

Big D: We do. [laughs]

Pugly: Obviously, I am completely humiliated, he says. I was planning to give up everything to build a life with her, and she was treating me like a joke the whole time. My feelings are complicated, so please don't feel entitled to any expansion on this, but I no longer feel guilt over her death. He never did!

Mickey: Wait. Wait…

Big D: He was afraid of getting caught. This guy sounds like… Have y’all seen the boys?

Mickey: Oh, I heard it's good. On Amazon or something?

Big D: Mhm.

Mickey: Yeah, I've heard it's good.

Big D: He sounds like a version of Homelander.

Mickey: Uh huh.

Big D: Just all about himself and praise and just his self-image.

Mickey: Narcissist?

Big D: You know what?

Mickey: Maybe he is, because he's like, “God, she was getting a joke on me the whole time,” like, buddy, she's literally dead. Like she's dead.

Pugly: Joke’s on her.

Mickey: Yeah, he's literally saying, “F*** you, Amy, like you're dead, you're dead.”

Pugly: Reddit acted like I kept her hostage whilst she begged for help. What actually happened was that I asked if she could ask her friend to take her to the hospital because I had to go home. She said that was fine because she needed to get some clothes back from her anyway, and I dropped her off as normal. Ultimately, she was an adult who had a better understanding of her medical needs than I did. I still don't know what happened between us saying goodbye and her death, but whatever it was, it had nothing to do with me. I'm sorry for her family's loss, but I bear no responsibility for her passing.

Mickey: Okay. Not to be like, not to be pro man, but like, honestly, like she did agree, like, you know, I'm fine. He shouldn't be in a relationship with her. Like that's not good, inappropriate, and he shouldn't be giving her promotions that she doesn't deserve, and like, if she's really, oh the love of my life, whatever, like he shouldn't be like just dropping her off and, and like not making sure she's okay, and being like, oh, you b****, you’re not responding to me because blah, blah, blah, and he shouldn't be cheating on his wife. All these things are true. He's a d***, and he deserves a lot of bad things to happen, like humiliation, whatever. But to say he's responsible for her death? That's like a stretch for me.

Big D: I agree. I wouldn't blame him for murder. I still think she's alive, but… [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs] Big D—

Big D: I'm holding on.

Pugly: Well, the last thing he says in the update is: After Amy's messages to her friends were passed around, a few people quietly reached out with words of support. I assumed everyone would write me off like Reddit did as an abuser and predator. Now that it's clear that Amy was using me, they see me as a fool who had then lost it all. It's beyond humiliating, but I have learned I'd rather be pitied than despised, and it improves my legal position with work.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: They're small mercies, but I'll take what I can get.

Mickey: So—

Pugly: I remain filled with regret, and I will have learned many lessons by the time I get through this. I may have been deceived, but I am a grown man who made my choices, and I take full responsibility for them.

Big D: Really? Really? They were both conning each other. They were both each other's mark, first of all. But I want to know, like, did he ever use his power against her? Like, “You better give me a blowjob or else”?

Pugly: Well, that's what they were saying was that he kind of threatened to, like, either remove her promotion or remove her job entirely when she wasn't “acting appropriately.”

Mickey: Yeah, that's f***ed up. He needs to go to jail for that. What is that, what is that called? Like, what's the crime here? Coercion? Yeah?

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah. Go to jail, dude.

Big D: Yeah. No sympathy for the guy.

Mickey: No, no sympathy at all.

Pugly: What about for Amy?

Mickey: Yeah. Some…

Big D: I have a lot of thoughts. 

Mickey: Some sympathy for Amy. Quite a bit of sympathy—she's dead. Or is she? [laughs]

Big D: Okay. [laughs]

Mickey: Um, but also like, what was it that… So, still, I'm confused about this. I don't know why I'm so hung up on it. Is work just upset about the money that they that he used?

Big D: I think so.

Mickey: That's it? That's the only thing? And like him giving her promotions or whatever that she didn't deserve.

Big D: It's probably a bad reflection that like management use their employees like that.

Mickey: Yeah. But it's not like about her death. None of it is about her death.

Big D: Mhm. Because what if she filed for like, I mean, she's reported him and they kept it hush, hush.

Mickey: Ooh. Could be.

Big D: So I'm thinking that—

Pugly: You’re saying HR kept it hush, hush?

Big D: Yeah. To keep the appearance up.

Mickey: Mhm.

Big D: So now that everything is to light, they're making him like scapegoat, but they're covering their tails too.

Mickey: Uh huh.

Big D: So there's a lot with Amy—

Pugly: This has become an HBO show.

Big D: I know! [laughs]

Mickey: We need a full podcast.

Big D: We do!

Mickey: True Crime.

Pugly: So this confession, you don't feel like, deserves any sympathy.

Big D: No!

Pugly: Yeah. I don't either. He does not sound like somebody who's remorseful.

Big D: Not at all.

Pugly: Has any compunction.

Mickey: Yeah,and for him to just have read those messages—

Big D: What does that word even mean? 

Pugly: It means remorseful.

Big D: That's so impressive. I’ve never heard of it.

Pugly: Yeah, I used it with her the other day, and she was like, “What? I've never heard that.” 

Big D: Compunction…

Mickey: I'm still convinced she made it up.

Big D: [laughs]

Mickey: When you compunctually…

Pugly: Oh, I can't look it up, the WiFi is—

Mickey: [laughs] 

Big D: I'll take your word for it. For now.

Mickey: So, what are your thoughts, actually? We didn't, we didn't really hear a lot of your thoughts.

Pugly: Um, I thought he's an asshole because of the way that he describes the situation and his involvement in it. Um, like you say, he prioritizes his work, first of all. And his, uh, was it the update where he said that? Um, yeah, he, he started talking about, oh, well, my job is at risk now, and I'm definitely getting fired, and so and so. My wife blah, blah, blah. And then, you know, Amy, it's a little complicated. Um, it's like—

Mickey: He’s like “Me, me, me.” 

Pugly: Yeah, it's, uh, not somebody that I'd want to be associated with, I guess I’ll say.

Mickey: Yeah.

Big D: Even his daughter was just not something… I think that was more of a tool for compassion.

Mickey: Yeah. He's like, I'm so upset about my daughter. Anyway, my job is like— [laughs]

Big D: Right? You don't think about being a good image for her this whole time.

Mickey: Yeah.

Big D: Whatever. Loser.

Mickey: Yeah. I mean, again, I have no sympathy for cheaters. Like, at all, because you're doing it to yourself.

Big D: Mmm! That's another topic.

Mickey: Yeah. 

Big D: You don't think cheaters ever—Okay, I won’t go there.

Mickey: What? Tell me.

Big D: They never deserve any sympathy?

Mickey: No, no, I have no sympathy. I'm not saying they don't deserve sympathy. I'm sure there are cheaters out there who are really remorseful, and I think you and I have talked about this, like, they realize immediately that they've done something wrong, and they stop it immediately. They don't continue to engage in that kind of behavior, and they have to fess up and, like, you know, really make changes. That's like different. But like, people who are cheaters like him where he's like, he's just a cheater. He's not someone who cheated. He's a cheater. Like, no.

Pugly: Serial cheaters.

Mickey: Serial cheaters. He deserves no sympathy from me.

Big D: Okay, okay.

Mickey: Yeah. And I mean, and even the one-time cheater—not saying that you should stay with a one-time cheater or you shouldn't stay, like, that's not, that's up to the person—but, like, for me, that's the only kind of person who cheats that deserves any sympathy. Or not sympathy, but like, you know, what's the word, like compassion, I guess? I don’t know.

Big D: Now, what if they were abused and they cheated? 

Mickey: Abused by…?

Big D: Their partner.

Mickey: I don't feel like that's cheating. I don't feel like that's cheating. If your partner is not acting as a partner, they're an abuser, then I don't think, like—

Big D: But that's like the excuse every cheater uses: “They're not there for me.”

Pugly: “Well yeah, my partner wasn't acting like a partner, so I cheated.”

Mickey: Well, I mean, I don't, like, I'm thinking of a situation where you're getting serial abused and you can't leave the relationship. But I don't think that's cheating, but if you're thinking of something where someone's, like, using that as an excuse, that's different, I guess.

Big D: Okay.

Mickey: You're thinking of a particular person…

Big D: Oh, no! Was I? No, I don't think so. [laughs] I had to think about it.

Mickey: I mean, if they're being truly abused, like, it's not a relationship, it's a hostage situation.

Big D: Mmk. But, I mean, were they really a hostage if they were cheating?

Mickey: Mmm… I don't know.

Big D: So many— 

Mickey: So many questions. What do you think?

Pugly: I don't think they were a hostage if they could get away with cheating. But that's not to say that it's not an abusive situation. I don't think that… That's not an equivalency.

Big D: Would they deserve your sympathy as a cheater?

Pugly: Not for the cheating, no.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: I'm not going to be sympathetic towards the cheating just for the sake of, “Well they're going through some hardship, so they can just go ahead and go cheat.”

Mickey: I think I've just seen one too many movies about this particular situation where it's like, for example, a woman is with like, I don't know, like the head of a gang or something and like his, his bodyguard while he's away is taking care of her and then they cheat together. I don't know.

Big D: Mmm… That sounds like a book I would read! [laughs]

Mickey: Oh, spicy.

Pugly: It's like a rom com or not “com”—

Mickey: A rom dram.

Pugly: Well, are you ready for an actual, Am I the A**hole post?

Mickey: Yeah, I'm ready.

Pugly: So this one is: “Am I the a**hole for filing for divorce because my husband over-tightens all the jar lids?”

Big D: Yes! Yes, you are.

Mickey: [laughs]

Big D: We don't even have to go.

Pugly: We don't need to read it?

Big D: No.

Mickey: The funny thing is, Big D, is sometimes we read these titles and we have, we immediately are like, yes or no, and then we read the story and we're like, “Wait…” 

Big D: Okay, let’s see, let’s see.

Pugly: Let’s be open-minded here.

Big D: Okay, I'll try.

Pugly: Alright. Nobody in this story is dead. I'm just kidding, I made that up.

Mickey: I was about to say…

Pugly: Um, his over-tightening jar lids has been an issue since he was just visiting at my house when we were dating. First, it started with just things he used, and then over time it became every damn glass jar with a metal lid. He tightened them so much I couldn't open them without assistance. It wasn't a huge deal if he was there, but if I was alone, it was so annoying.

[Fan noise]

Big D: Drone…

Pugly: More times than I can count, I've opened a new jar of something because I couldn't get the jar open.

Mickey: Oh gosh.

Pugly: It's been a recurring cycle over the past five years. It's just a thing that would escalate until I had a major meltdown and freaked out, screaming, frustrated and seemingly crazy because it's just a lid.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Then it would get better for a while. Then it would slowly become an issue again, just getting worse and worse until I reach a breaking point again.

Mickey: Geez, why didn’t this guy just like not tighten the jars?

Big D: First of all, how many jars do you need in a house? Like just strawberry jam… Like, how many jars are we talking?

Pugly: I mean, you’ve got pickles too.

Mickey: Different types of pickles.

Big D: No, no, [redacted]. That's… Anonymous. [laughs]

Pugly: Wait, what’d you say?

Mickey: She said my name.

Pugly: Uh oh. We gotta cut that s*** out.

Mickey: Bleep bleep bleep bleep.

Pugly: What did, what did you say though after that?

Big D: I mean, the different type of pickles, that's only you. [laughs]

Pugly: Yeah, because like—

Mickey: Maybe true, yeah, maybe true. [laughs] 

Pugly: Sometimes I literally feel insane for being so upset over jar lids. He initially claimed that he did it to “keep food fresh.” After many arguments about it and my insistence that I don't believe it keeps anything fresh and even if it does make things last longer, I don't care if it means I can't eat my freaking food when I want. I'll just replace things that go bad because they're closed normally. Then the excuse was that it's just a habit of his.

So about a month ago, my husband had a family emergency and had to travel out of state for 10 days. First day he's gone, I discover a jar I can't open. I was annoyed and was going to go to the store to buy new pickles when the neighbor said hi and let me know if I needed anything while soon-to-be ex-husband is out of town. I said, “Wait here,” and got the jar, which he opened. The next day I saw him outside and asked him to open another jar. He offered to come open all the jars.

Mickey: This is, this is another rom dram in the making.

Pugly: I agreed, and he came in, and he went to the fridge and opened all the jars except two, which even he couldn't get open.

Mickey: What else did he open? [laughs]

Big D: Ohh! I got that one.

Pugly: Not safe for work. Now this is going to be expletive marked. Um, I thanked him profusely and told him I'd bake some of his favorite cookies later in the week. He laughed and said it was no big deal, and after confirming that I wouldn't be upset if the remaining two jars were destroyed in his attempt to open them, he took them home to his garage to open them one way or another.

He said that he's heard me screaming about over-tightened jars a few times over the years, and he's really pondered if I was crazy or if my husband really was over-tightening the jar lids. He said, “You know, this was probably intentional.”

It was every jar, and I'm sure my ex doesn't regularly use hot pepper paste or mango puree or any of the other fancy cooking stuff.

Then he held up the two jars he couldn't open and said, “I don't know why he's doing it, but it wasn't an accident.”

Big D: Oh my God.

Pugly: After he left… What are your thoughts about that statement?

Big D: Oh my God, she's a psycho.

Pugly: She is or he is?

Big D: She.

Mickey: Well… Okay, but I feel like who would say that? He just met her. Like he literally just met her. Why would he overstep and say that, right? Is it just me?

Pugly: Did he just meet her or are they neighborly?

Mickey: Oh, maybe.

Big D: Is this a figment of her imagination?

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Oh my Lord…

Mickey: Big D has so many doubts.

Big D: I am very skeptical right now, okay?

Pugly: I think you've maybe been dealing with too many psychotic people. [laughs]

Big D: I think so. [laughs] I don't believe anything.

Mickey: Nothing is real.

Pugly: Nothing is real. Everything is imagination.

Big D: Okay, I just need to know. How many freaking jars do you guys have in your fridge? And she says food, like it's legit food, not snacky snacks. So, do you guys have actual food in jars?

Mickey: I actually have quite a bit of jars, but that’s me.

Pugly: I don't have that many.

Big D: Yeah.

Pugly: I'm not a foodie though, so… I don't, I don't use whatever puree she was talking about.

Mickey: I have at least, I have at least 10-15, but I'm not using them every day.

Big D: Mmk. So she's being dramatic.

Mickey: Maybe. But also like, after so many years, like your partner doesn't listen to you? I would be mad.

Big D: [laughs]Enough to divorce?

Mickey: Well, okay, I'm not saying she's right to divorce, but why doesn't he care that it makes her upset?

Big D: How about they just not use jars at a certain point?

Mickey: Well, I mean, he could have suggested that.

Pugly: Well, here we go.

Mickey: [laughs]

Big D: [laughs]

Pugly: After he left, I locked the door and sat on my kitchen floor and cried. Then I felt hot and lightheaded. I vomited in the trash can.

Big D: She's pregnant.

Pugly: My chest hurt.

Big D: Oh. No, that’s a heart attack.

Pugly: It crossed my mind that I might be having a heart attack. I thought about calling an ambulance but sat back down on my kitchen floor instead, okay with just dying if it was a heart attack.

Mickey: Oh my God!

Pugly: Later, the neighbor came back with the open jar of hot fudge and apologized that he couldn't save the figs. He said he broke the jar trying to get it open. He also apologized for what he said about my husband doing it on purpose. I assured him it was okay.

I couldn't sleep that night. I tossed and turned all night. I called out of work. By 10:00 AM, I realized that I couldn't stay married anymore, and I made an appointment with a lawyer the next day. There are literally no other issues. No cheating, no abuse. We had a good sex life. Both have good jobs. Nice house, no financial issues… He was absolutely blindsided when he came home and I told him I wanted a divorce. 

Mickey: In these stories where, where someone is like, there's literally no other issues, they only mention practical things. They never mention, you know, I loved him. They, they never said that. They never say that. They're always like, “We had a good sex life,” “We, we had a good house,” whatever.

Pugly: But those are the things that contribute to love.

Mickey: Oh yeah. That’s right. How could I forget?

Pugly: Anyway, he still won't admit that he tightened the jars on purpose. He suggested we go to marriage counseling, but I refused. There is no point. I just literally can't get past the g**d*** jar lids.

I still feel a bit crazy about that. I have no idea why he would tighten every jar lid so tightly that I couldn't open it. He has given me no reason. He still won't even admit that he did it on purpose. (You already said that.)

But the hot pepper paste is in the back of the fridge. I use it only when I make Indian food. It's behind other things. He has never used it. It's nothing you could put in food without cooking it. The pepper paste could not have been an accident. It just couldn't. Maybe he put mango puree on his toast or on his oatmeal, but the pepper paste couldn't have been an accident.

That's what my life comes down to. I'm getting a divorce because the lid to my hot pepper paste was over-tightened.

If it had been every jar except that one—

Mickey: [laughs] This is so funny!

Big D: I’m frustrated.

Pugly: If it had been every jar except that one, then I could try.

Big D: Yeah right.

Pugly: I would have had a sliver of doubt. I could do something else, but I just cannot get past the hot pepper paste. Most of our friends and families either think I'm crazy or an a**hole. What do you think?

Big D: Yeah.

Mickey: I have to say your reading voice is great. It's getting better and better with every podcast.

Pugly: Thanks, it’s, yeah, this one was a good one to read. 

Mickey: [laughs] The emotion.

Pugly: Yeah. I felt for her. I felt for this situation because it is like—

Big D: What?! You're on her side?!

Pugly: I'm a little on her side.

Big D: What the heck? 

Pugly: Because like Anonymous One said, when you're in a relationship, you do have a duty to sort of listen to your partner.

Mickey: Du-ty. [laughs] 

Pugly: You have a duty, you have the responsibility to listen to your partner and enact change when there's a, you know, a concern.

Big D: What if she's weak? What if he did it intentionally or he was just using his normal strength and she was flimsy-armed? 

Pugly: No, no. How did this man, the neighbor, have to go back to his place and undo it and in his garage with tools?

Big D: But how is it that she started thinking of divorce when he started popping up at her house?

Mickey: He’s hot. That’s how it is.

Big D: [laughs] She has a reason and that's the neighbor.

Pugly: I will defend her honor in this case because I read a comment, and I don't have it locked down here, but I read a comment saying that the neighbor was gay. So that throws a wrench in that rom com situation.

Mickey: You can be hot for a gay man.

Big D: Yeah.

Pugly: Filing for divorce, though, for that reason?

Mickey: Yeah.

Big D: Okay…

Pugly: It's a little extreme.

Mickey: I just think it's weird that even when she filed for divorce, he wasn't like “Wait, I'm sorry, I tightened them so tight.” Like, he was like we should go to marriage counseling, not like, “I'm sorry. I really didn't mean to tighten the jars that tight,” like he's not apologizing. Why is he not apologizing?

Mickey: But out of all the issues, just freaking use a container! But okay, so you guys are on her side.

Pugly: Someone says: This is like the opposite of weaponized incompetence. If all of what OP said tracks, then he's continually putting his wife in a situation where she feels weak and needs his help. It would make him feel like a big man coming to the rescue of his lady. It's the only explanation that really makes sense here outside of just wanting to piss his wife off. In which case, oof.

Big D: [laughs]

Pugly: Why is that funny?

Big D: That's so brilliant. If that was his way of pissing her off, that would be so… you don't actually have to get into a fight. 

Pugly: But you're going to, as a result of it. 

Big D: It seemed like she kept a lot of it in until like big, you know…

Pugly: Blow ups.

Big D: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah, so like, if that is what he's doing—

Big D: That's freaking smart as hell.

Pugly: I want to know, like, okay, before… She said this started when they were dating and he would do this to her jar lids in her apartment when they were dating. But I want to know: does he do it to his jar lids too? Like when they were separately living, was he doing it in his apartment too on his own jar lids or was it just her?

Big D: Did she try to open them? [laughs]

Pugly: I don't know. But she should reflect back and think—

Mickey: Maybe, maybe even if he did though, like if your partner is telling you like, “Hey, I need them less tight because I can't open them.”

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Even if you tighten your jars that tight…

Big D: [laughs] I just can't, there are some real problems in the world and opening jars… [laughs]

Pugly: So you don't think this is worthy of divorce?

Big D: Heck no!

Pugly: I think anything is worthy of divorce, if you feel it's worthy.

Mickey: I think it's worthy as long as you feel like you're not being listened to.

Pugly: I'm pro divorce.

Mickey: We know you are.

Big D: How is it though, like, okay, if they have everything else fine and it's only on this one issue…

Pugly: I just don't believe that.

Big D: Wouldn't it track across the board? Like if he was really trying? 

Pugly: There is an edit.

Mickey: Ooh. What’s the edit?

Big D: Let me hear it.

Pugly: She says: Well, after defending myself in this post, I've realized there are some other things that are all circumstantial that also weigh into my decision. I had to move my office from my dining nook to a locked room because he was using my workspace on days I went to the office. That was no big deal, except he was moving important documents that I needed for work. He denied moving anything and swore he was just setting up his laptop and maybe using my printer.

I started taking pictures of my desk before I left for work, and things were being moved. He was the only one home. He totaled my car twice in five years, even though he rarely drives it. The second time was right after we married, and he put a lot of pressure on me to use the insurance money to pay off his car instead of replacing mine because I don't drive a lot, and I sometimes bike to work.

Mickey: Does he ever get into an accident with his car?

Pugly: Good question.

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: We live in the suburbs, and there is no public transportation.

He proposed that I could just use his car when I needed to, but I really wanted to continue having my own car. As soon as we married, he was pressuring me to have a child. His plan for childcare was for me to watch the baby while working. I wanted to save a year of childcare expenses before we talked about a baby. He didn't want to.

I just felt weird about it, so I got an IUD to make sure we didn't have an accident. He was angry. Again, nothing proves any ill intent on his part, but all of these things just unsettled me.

Big D: Okay, so what are we thinking?

Mickey: What are we thinking?

Pugly: This is an incompatibility, to me.

Mickey: Yeah. I think if you don't trust your partner and get an IUD because you're like, oh, he's going to try… Like, like you don't trust to have a pregnancy with him that you're not ready for because you think he won't let you get an abortion or something. That's a big deal.

Pugly: There's something too about like when she keeps mentioning in the original post that he never admits that he does this on purpose. Like, it gives me the same feeling as when people are like struggling to be with somebody that they feel is cheating on them because they have this constant paranoia or feeling that something is going on behind their back that they're not being told straight up and they're not going to be acknowledged if they confront the issue with the person. Like it's like one of those situations where it's like—

Mickey: Like gaslighting.

Pugly: Yeah. Yeah.

Big D: Hmm… I see…

Mickey: And the whole thing with the desk. Him being like, “No, I never touched anything.”

Big D: But the fact that she cares enough to take a picture.

Mickey: Well,so when you feel like you're being gaslit, you feel crazy. So, I feel like that's why she started taking pictures. 

Pugly: She needs evidence so that she can say, “Okay, well it’s not just my word, it’s also iPhone.”

Big D: Okay, I can see that.

Mickey: It's more about like your own sanity because you're like, “Wait, I'm pretty sure I didn't put this here,” and the person you're saying that to is like, “Well, I didn't move it,” but they—

Pugly: Yeah, “I don't know what you're talking about.”

Mickey: Yeah.

Pugly: “I never saw it there.”

Mickey: Yeah. But this is a weird story because it's really little things that are like very unrelated, and it kind of feels like he could be doing them to piss her off, but we don't, we can't know that for sure.

Pugly: Yeah. I think the jar lids that is a little bit like… That definitely seems like there's more intention behind that one because she's confronted him on it so many times, like—

Mickey: He can't possibly like, I be like, “Well, I don't know, I didn't know.” 

Pugly: “I didn't know you were struggling with it.” Are you kidding me?

Mickey: How many years have they been together? Does it say?

Pugly: I don't know if it was this story, but maybe it was the other one where he said seven.

Mickey: It was the other one. Because like, if it's years— 

Pugly: It's been a recurring cycle over the past five years.

Mickey: Huh… Five years.

Big D: I feel like there's something we don't know.

Mickey: Right?

Big D: There is something. 

Pugly: Like what, like what? Like one of them is dead?

Mickey: [laughs] She’s making up for the last story, like one of them must be dead. She's imagining him. [laughs]

Big D: There’s… I don't know. He's hiding something, and… I'm not going to go there. I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole. I’ma stop talking, but I think there's just something there.

Pugly: What, what, what would be there?

Big D: [laughs] I don’t know!

Pugly: You do know!

Mickey: He's cheating on her?

Big D: No, I feel like he hurt someone.

Mickey: Ooh.

Pugly: He hurt someone? 

Big D: Because have you guys ever seen that movie?

Pugly: Oh my gosh.

Mickey: Okay, tell us.

Big D: Where this man would act like low key and do something like that, like pretend to be a caring husband but in some ways not be. And he had a secret affair, and he killed her and threw her in the river behind their house.

Mickey: Oh, geez. I have not seen that one, but it reminds me of a story we did on the podcast once with the snails.

Pugly: Ohh, yeah. Slugs, I think.

Mickey: Did you hear that one—slugs?

Big D: Nuh uh.

Pugly: So this guy was like—

Pugly: Wow. Traitor. Big D doesn't listen to this podcast.

Big D: I do.

Mickey: Well, in that particular episode that you missed on accident, um, there was a guy who was like perfect boyfriend or partner, I can't remember what he was to her, but he was basically like secretly, he was secretly poisoning her with slugs. Like he would blend these slugs up from her garden. Some of them were actually her slugs, I think that she had as a pet. And he would blend them up and put it, put it in, in the food that he made her. He was like, “I made you cake,” or “I made you whatever.” And she was like, slowly… Oh! And he, he would open her, some of her capsules, like her pills and like put stuff in there, right? He was like poisoning her with some, I don't know, metals or something?

Big D: That is so interesting.

Mickey: Mhm. And he was like, you know, stand-up guy and everything, but secretly he was like, poisoning her, and I don't know why there are stories of people doing that.

Big D: So we think he's hiding something.

Mickey: I mean, I think, I feel like he doesn't like her. I feel like he doesn't like her, if he doesn't care that she's so upset about these jars. Like I'm not saying it's reasonable to be so upset about the jars—

Big D: But he's taking pleasure in doing things against her.

Mickey: Yeah! He can’t not be, like if he actually loves her, he can’t not want to keep the jars a little bit loose for her after all this time of her being so frustrated. Even if he's like, okay, she's overreacting. If he's like, okay, I'm not going to do it just, even if, even if she really wants it, I'm not going to do it. Does he love her? Like, does he care? I don't know. I don't know.

Big D: I would say he doesn’t. 

Mickey: Yeah. I don't know. 

Pugly: Ohh, but that's not enough to get divorced, is it, eh?

Big D: Unless she's psycho.

Pugly: Okay, so you think she’s psycho?

Big D: There’s… Okay, I need…I just need more. Because he could be doing this intentionally or she could be hyper-focused on a couple of things and building this whole scenario in her head.

Mickey: But either way, I think you're right when you say they're not really compatible. 

Big D: Yeah, they're not compatible.

Pugly: Um, so not a match. Someone else said: Play the game. Unscrew the lids and glue them back on, then watch him struggle.

Mickey: That’s funny.

Pugly: I like that. Yeah. And that'll keep it really sealed tightly so that the freshness never goes away.

Big D: It sounds like you've done that before.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: [laughs]

Big D: Yeah!

Pugly: No, no, I haven't done that. Any other thoughts on this one?

Big D: Nope, I'm over their story. They're both incomplete people.

Mickey: Yep. Yep.

Pugly: So we have a couple of options for one more. Unless…

Mickey: I’m down for another.

Big D: Me too. 

Mickey: You’re having fun? [laughs]

Pugly: This is a more lighthearted one.

Mickey: Okay, we’re ready for lighthearted—

Pugly: Would we, would we like a more lighthearted or less lighthearted?

Mickey: Rom com.

Pugly: A year ago, I (27F) broke up with my lying boyfriend (27M). Today, I found out that everyone else was lying and he was being truthful.

Mickey: [gasps] Ooh.

Big D: This is interesting.

Pugly: This was posted in the r/relationships subreddit in 2015.

Mickey: Wow. I wonder if there was an update.

Pugly: Well, we'll see. A year ago, I was about to move in with my first serious boyfriend, Josh, with whom I was head over heels in love when one of my closest friends said that Josh had shown them a nude photo of me on his phone when he was drunk during a party. Five or six more of my friends corroborated the story and told me that Josh also talked in extreme detail about our sex life when showing the photo.

Mickey: Oh my God.

Big D: Wow. 

Pugly: It was sickeningly detailed. This did not sound at all like Josh. When I asked him what the f*** was going on, he denied everything. He eventually—

Big D: But wait! Was it true though?

Mickey: [chuckles] Yeah. Like were the, were the, that's what I was wondering. Was the stuff that they said he said true?

Pugly: Well… 

Big D: [laughs] Okay, continue sorry.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: He eventually got very angry and started calling all of my friends liars. At one point, he showed up at my place while some of them were visiting, and things got a little physical.

Mickey: Ooh.

Pugly: It was a really strange turn of events in my life. 

Mickey: Physical? Like… like a brawl. 

Pugly: Or like a… a battle.

Mickey: [laughs]

Big D: [laughs]

Pugly: Josh seemed so worked up and all of my close friends were calling him a liar. Josh had taken photos of me on his phone, which I know was stupid, but heat of the moment and everything. So I trusted my friends and I broke up with Josh. It was heart-wrenching. Josh begged me to believe him. He started tearing up, nearly punched the wall, and left angrily. I was really grossed out at the time and felt super conflicted.

A few months later, I started dating one of my friends, Alex, who had told me about Josh showing everyone the photo. All of my friends were pushing me to date Alex at the time.

Mickey: [gasps] Oh, wow.

Pugly: We didn't really sync, and it didn't go past a few months, but we remained friends of sorts. So today, another friend sends me a message that says he wanted to get something off his chest. The story about Josh wasn't true, and they were really trying to get me to date Alex, so they made up that story about Josh.

Big D: Trash.

Pugly: After talking to a few of the other people, including Alex, it's all come out that they were lying. 

Mickey: Oh my God.

Pugly: It was this f***ing orchestrated bullshit that totally changed my life forever. Apparently, they hated Josh and thought he was bad for me and an a**hole. That was my f***ing decision. I'm shaking right now.

Mickey: Oh my God.

Pugly: I cried in the office bathroom for about two hours afterwards. I loved Josh so much. We were planning a life together, and I've been friends with that group since high school. What the f***? I guess I'm supposed to stop talking to my friends, right? I cannot possibly come back from this and still talk to them, right?

Mickey: Yes.

Pugly: This basically nukes my group of friends. But how could I ever even look at them again? 

Big D: Mhm.

Pugly: Also, I need closure with Josh. Can I call him? Should I call him? Should I unblock him on Facebook and message him? What do I do?

Mickey: Oh my God, this is so sad. What do you mean lighthearted? This is the saddest thing I've ever heard.

Big D: I am angry because, like, okay, well, there's a lot of reasons. But before she even tries to talk to Josh, she better drop her friends.

Mickey: Mhm.

Pugly: Uh huh. That is not a question.

Mickey: Those are not friends.

Pugly: Those are enemies on the battle lines.

Mickey: And like, okay, to manipulate your friend so that she can be with a guy that you think is better and who is also your friend? Like that’s so…

Big D: That's controlling.

Mickey: Yeah, that’s gross.

Big D: There's something more to it.

Mickey: Yeah.

Big D: What would you call it? 

Mickey: I would call it like they never liked her. [laughs]

Big D: Yes! Yes. [laughs]

Pugly: I would call it no compunction.

Mickey: [laughs] Wait, I forgot what that means. Oh, remorse.

Big D: Yeah. No, questionable… That's some mean girl ish.

Mickey: Yeah, and Josh, like, for him to like someone and then want that for them.

Pugly: And also can we just say these are s***ty friends to not be able to anticipate that this is not going to last—the whole Alex thing. They didn't even get her with somebody that lasted like years on end. It was like a few months’ relationship.

Mickey: Yeah.

Big D: So the way they described their sex life, it had to have been accurate enough.

Mickey: Yeah. That’s what I’m thinking.

Mickey: But wouldn’t you have some thoughts, like… Wouldn’t you know that this may be a lie?

Mickey: I don't know, like maybe they just kept it vague enough.

Pugly: I mean, they did say also that he was drunk, so I guess you could say, “Oh, well, he wasn't acting normally then.”

Big D: Is everyone's sex life the same?

Mickey: Probably not, but also probably, like, maybe they just said general stuff, or maybe she had told them at some point with another relationship that she liked something, like, “I like X thing,” whatever… And so they were like, “Yeah, Josh told us that you like X thing” or whatever.

Big D: Wow.

Mickey: Yeah. And, and they're your friends, so you're not gonna, like… I mean, obviously she asked him, but like, you're not going to doubt your friends. Like, why would—

Big D: Do you think this was the first mean girl thing they did?

Mickey: Probably not.

Big D: There had to— She… There's something in the past. You can't be that complete of a fool.

Pugly: You know, in Mean Girls when they have that scene where they have the, um, laxative?

Big D: Oh yeah. No, I forgot actually. [laughs]

Mickey: I don't know.

Pugly: They, like, give this girl like some kind of brownies or something.

Big D: Oh!

Mickey: The main girl. They start giving her, um, laxative and—

Pugly: Who comes up with this s***? 

Big D: True.

Pugly: Like… Tina Fey has a wicked mind.

Big D: [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs] Or, and she also gives her, like, protein bars that make you fat and told her it's like to lose weight and stuff.

Pugly: Yeah.

Big D: But like… [sighs] How gullible.

Mickey: Mhm. Well, because that's the thing, that's the thing about friendships. Like, like…

Pugly: And the number of people.

Mickey: You're supposed to trust them, you're supposed to trust them. Yeah, and they're all, like, conspiring.

Pugly: It's like seven against one.

Big D: That’s true.

Mickey: Yeah. That is so f***ed up.

Pugly: You don't think that seven people are evil versus one good…

Big D: That’s true.

Mickey: Who, who you've known since high—whatever she said.

Pugly: Yeah.

Mickey: Yeah. That’s so messed up, oh my God.

Pugly: Well there was an update.

Mickey: Oh! Oh my God. Okay, wait, can we say what we hope? Let me say. I hope she texts him and is like, super like, “I'm so sorry, I shouldn't have believed them, but these are the circumstances,” and like I, I just hope you can forgive me.

Big D: Mhm. [sighs]I don't know. I feel like she is a little bit… dumb. [laughs]

Pugly: So you wish her harm?

Big D: No! I hope she does tell him what she found out, but he does not go to her because she seems gullible and needs some more growth.

Pugly: Okay.

Mickey: You don't think this is a learning lesson, a learning point for her?

Big D: I hope so, but like, for him to, like… You don't want to be burnt twice.

Mickey: Yeah, I don't know if I would be able to forgive that.

Big D: Mhm. What do you think?

Pugly: I've already read it, so…

Big D: Ah, damn, okay.

Mickey: No, but what do you, what would you want at this point?

Pugly: Her to find a better group of friends, first and foremost, I think. Maybe getting back together with the guy, but I guess it depends on how long it's been. It was a year ago, I guess, so…

Mickey: I wonder if she's moved on. She never said that. Well, you know, so…

Big D: In this comment, maybe. Let's hear it.

Pugly: Alright. Even though everyone seemed to think this was a terrible idea, I sent Josh an email on Friday. I copied it here.

Josh, I don't know if you're still connected to anyone on Facebook, bBut if you are, you probably already know why I'm sending this, and I know it is totally unfair and selfish to contact you, but I cannot imagine going through the rest of my life without apologizing. So before I say a bunch of embarrassing things, more than anything, I want to say that I am sorry I did not trust you. I am sorry I let other people decide our relationship. I am sorry for what I put you through. But I figure this might be my only chance to say this, so here comes the really lame embarrassing stuff.

I spent the past day thinking about the past year, where I would be if I had believed you, what my life would be like. Would we be engaged? Would we be married? I'm not over you. I want to try again. I'm not asking you to marry me, but if you ever find yourself thirsty, I would love to buy you a beverage of your choice.

Big D: [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs] What? Wait, that was so corny. That was so corny!

Big D: I actually like that line. [laughs]

Mickey: Big D is saving that one. [laughs]

Pugly: She says: I want to talk to you again. I miss everything about our relationship. I miss you getting annoyed when I stole your French fries. I miss fighting with you over money. I miss making you breakfast. I miss watching The Office with you over and over and over. I miss you. 

Mickey: Damn.

Pugly: My information is still the same. I would not blame you if you ignored and deleted this. Just know that I know. I am really sorry.

So I sent it and tried to take my mind off of it. Just writing it and sending it was extremely cathartic. I spent Saturday morning sitting around watching old movies when someone rang my doorbell. Assuming it was Amazon, I ignored it and waited for the delivery driver to leave so that I could sneak out and grab the package. (I was in my robe.) 

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: After a minute or two, I walked over to the door and looked through the hole. It was Josh. Obviously, my heart leapt into my throat. I had been compulsively checking my phone for a response, but I was not expecting something like that. Everything in my house, including me, was pretty disheveled.

I cracked the door, smiled, said hi, and told him that I had to get dressed really quick. What a terrible interaction.

Mickey: Was that your comment or hers?

Pugly: Hers!

Mickey: Oh. [laughs]

Pugly: So I ran around my place throwing s*** in the corners, pulled my hair back, found something to wear and went back to the door. “I'm here for that beverage.”

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: I only had OJ and water, which was also pretty embarrassing, but Josh stuck around anyways. He didn't ask many questions, really. I started to talk about the nude photo incident, but he said he didn't really care to talk about it. We both know all of the details now. The conversation eventually grew a bit aimless, and we were just talking like old times. It was wonderful. 

He asked if I was hungry. I wasn't really, but of course, I said I was. We went to a nearby burger place that we used to go to all the time. He did ask whether or not I had dated Alex. He didn't seem too upset by my answer. I asked him if he had dated anyone. He had a six-month relationship in the interim. She sounded great, but I didn't pry. When we got back to my place, Josh asked what I was doing for the rest of the day. “I don't have plans.”

We spent the rest of the day together. Then the night. It's totally stupid to move that fast, but I'm not going to spend much time worrying about it. I'm feeling happy. 

We spent part of Sunday together too. Then Tuesday and Wednesday. We discussed what we were doing: two single people dating each other was the consensus. Exclusive? Yes. 

I think the world of him and I always regret what happened. No matter what though, I'm extremely happy I sent the letter to him. It's interesting to think that if he had actually done what everyone accused him of and then I took him back, I would probably have trust issues. Now, obviously, I trust him to the core. He could tell me the world was flat, and I'd have trouble questioning him. Just a weird thought I've been having.

So that's the story. We're together again. Will it work out? I hope so. No matter what, things are better today than they were last week.

Big D: Hmm…

Pugly: That's so cute. I'm gonna cry, actually. That’s so romantic.

Pugly: I was getting a little tearful myself.

Big D: Yeah.

Mickey: That's like really romantic. Like what the f***?

Pugly: I do think the thirsty line was a bit… um… maybe could have used a little bit of tinkering but, you know, it worked.

Mickey: Maybe it's an inside joke or something.

Pugly: Maybe.

Mickey: Yeah. 

Big D: It was great. Um…

Mickey: Okay… Let's hear what you really think.

Pugly: Um… “I think one of them was psychotic.”

Big D: No, it was a good story. Now, what I was thinking the entire time, she's a good writer. I hope she's writing a book. I would read her book.

Pugly: Well, this was 2015, so she's had plenty of years to practice that craft.

Mickey: Yeah. I wonder if they're still together. Is there an update about that?

Pugly: There's no new update.

Mickey: From her account at all?

Pugly: I'll check.

Mickey: But, yeah, I just think… This is romantic. I want a movie. I want a whole movie. [laughs] Or a book! If she writes a book.

Big D: Maybe it's a Wattpad story too. [laughs] You never know.

Mickey: I’ll take that. I’ll take whatever I can get.

Pugly: But we, on this channel—I mean this podcast, we just assume that everybody's being honest, just because it makes it more interesting to do that than to just say, “Oh, well, they're lying because this detail doesn't match up with this.”

Big D: No, I really do hope she’s writing. She's a good freaking writer.

Pugly: She is posting in the Dallas subreddit now. I don't know if that has anything to do with that story, but… Let’s see.

Mickey: They’re in Dallas. They moved to Dallas. It's interesting though that he… Was it the same day that he, she emailed him that he showed up? Because, like, that's a fast forgiveness. What the heck?

Big D: He was waiting.

Mickey: Yeah. Aww. Maybe he was, like he tried the other relationship and he was like, you know, there's, it's just her, like, I know she's the one for me, and he's just hoping one day the truth would come out or, like, sub-, subconsciously.

Big D: Hm… Because they were together a year?

Mickey: Mhm. Well, actually, no, we don't know how long they were together. Right? I don't think we do. But maybe he had also, like, forgiven her already because he was, like, well, knowing what she thought was true, like that, she did the right thing, but it's not the truth.

Big D: Because I guess we would all be making the same decision.

Mickey: Yeah. Even him.

Big D: Uh huh.

Mickey: But, like, maybe he directed his anger at the right people. That's what I'm saying, like, at them instead of at her. 

Pugly: Well, I can't find an update on this, but it does seem like she's very active in the arcade arena in the Dallas area. So, if you're ever looking to find somebody who's like, you know, a good rom com writer… Maybe I should reach out to her.

Mickey: Yeah, honestly.

Big D: You should.

Mickey: Can we tag her or something?

Big D: I wonder why he didn't, like, confront her friends?

Mickey: Yeah. Maybe, maybe he did and they didn't say anything, or maybe he just left it that day. He seems like a very mature person.

Big D: Yeah, he does.

Mickey: But that's not to say—

Big D: Kind of just let it be.

Mickey: Yeah.

Big D: Probably didn’t want there to be anymore drama than what he was already a part of.

Mickey: Yeah. And he was like, “There's no use with these people; they're bad people and stay away.” Like all he cared about was her and she wasn't believing him, so he just decided to… Mhm.

Pugly: So what was y'all's ideal outcome for this story?

Mickey: This is my ideal outcome. 

Pugly: Oh. Is what?

Big D: What happened.

Pugly: Oh. So nothing… They just die right then and there? 

Mickey: No!

Pugly: There's no progression?

Mickey: They finally get to move in together and like actually try that out and live happily ever after because it's a fairytale. I don't want to know. If they broke up, don't tell me.

Pugly: Okay, so I'm not reaching out to this person?

Mickey: No, you can reach out to her. That would be nice to do an update next episode.

Pugly: Yeah. If she responds.

Mickey: Mhm. 

Big D: Aww, okay, well what a good—

Mickey: Also I wanted to say something. Like, not only is she a good writer, but she has a good head on her shoulders. Like it's sad that she believed her friends, but like, again, we can't really fault her. But then, you know, she did the right thing. Like she said, she did the right thing based on what she knew, which was she thought he did all those bad things, and she cut him off. Because that's the right thing to do.

Big D: That’s true.

Mickey: And then when she found out, she immediately apologized and was like, “I forgive you” and like… Not “I forgive you.” “I’m sorry” [laughs] Um… And, uh, and was honest about how she felt. So that's very mature, you know? She wasn't like…

Big D: So they both did it correct.

Mickey: Mhm. Mhm.

Big D: Okay. Well, then, yeah.

Mickey: Well then, yeah, happily ever after.

Big D: What’s something, maybe something we all like learned?

Mickey: I… I'm glad you did that story last because, you know, hope and humanity restored or whatever. Like the first two stories, ugh.

Big D: Mhm.

Mickey: What, what was the first two stories?

Pugly: We did the confession and then we did the one about the jar lids.

Pugly: Oh, the jar lids. [laughs] That was ridiculous. Honestly, that was ridiculous. Like, yeah.

Pugly: That's what I learned today is that if I have a partner that's going to continuously tighten my jar lids to the point that I can't open them, divorce is imminent.

Big D: [laughs]

Mickey: [laughs] Okay, what about, what have you learned?

Big D: I learned there is always two sides to the story.

Mickey: Mhm. So true. 

Pugly: And when we only have one side, you're going to assume the absolute worst of the person.

Big D: You’re exactly right. Always be skeptical.

Mickey: Uh huh. It's funny because if it was the other person telling the story, you'd be skeptical of them.

Big D: Hell yeah, I would be. [laughs]

Mickey: Question the storyteller, kids.

Pugly: And what did you learn?

Mickey: Oh, uh… What did I learn? I learned that some relationships aren't meant to be, and some are. 

Pugly: Mmk.

Big D: [laughs] She's not impressed.

Mickey: [laughs]

Pugly: Who's not?

Big D: You!

Pugly: Why? You looked the same as I did.

Mickey: So you’re not impressed.

Big D: [laughs] You said it! I didn’t say anything.

Pugly: I didn’t say anything.

Mickey: You’re the one who said it!

Big D: But you thought it.

Mickey: Wow.

Pugly: I didn't say it.

Pugly: Wow.

Pugly: You thought it.

Mickey: Okay, sorry I didn't learn anything groundbreaking.

Big D: You did great, you did great.

Mickey: What was it that you learned again?

Pugly: “There's two sides to every story.”

Mickey: Yeah, okay. Haven’t heard that one before. [laughs]

Big D: Oh my God, I'm being blasted right now.

Pugly: Anyways…

Mickey: Thank you guys for listening to this podcast. Big D, thank you so much for being on the show with us.

Big D: Any time.

Pugly: Please follow us on Instagram at eh, ooh. 

Mickey: [laughs]

Big D: [laughs] 

Pugly: I was gonna say the full link and then I'm like, “Not everybody needs that.”

Mickey: Oh, you did that another time, I think.

Pugly: Did I really? Okay, um, follow us on Instagram at SecondhandConfessionsPodcast.

Big D: Wait, with http? [laughs]

Mickey: Yeah!

Pugly: That wasn’t me that did that. That was you.

Mickey: Oh, but you did—

Pugly: No, you said “www.”

Big D: [laughs]

Mickey: Some people don't know.

Pugly: You don't have to put that.

Big D: [laughs] I am so done.

Mickey: I don't have a phone, okay? So I don't know how it works.

Big D: What's this freaking link? [laugh]

Pugly: What?

Big D: What's the link?

Pugly: Instagram, go to @SecondhandConfessionsPodcast.

Mickey: We're not very active on there, but we'd like you to follow us so that we can be.

Pugly: And also, if you'd like to review us on Apple Podcasts specifically or Spotify, just give us a good review.

Mickey: Yeah, Spotify or Apple because it seems like there's a witch hunt [laughs] against us, like honestly. And if you're listening, you know who you are. And you're immature. You're a child. Bye. [laughs] But anyway, we're just having fun doing this. Um… We don't care about reviews, but it would be nice. It would be nice to see some support. We love you guys. We'll hear, uh, we'll have some more stories for you next uh podcast. I don't know what time interval.

Pugly: Next time.

Mickey: Yeah. Next time. Alright.

Pugly: Alright, sounds good.

Mickey: Bye.